Is it a good offer? I need convincing.

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 04 Feb 2018, 13:11

mr hil. wrote:
There is acknowledgement in the deal of the "poor moral" in DOs, especially due to lack of resources, with a plan of action to address any issues, so all this talk of nothing being done to redress the B&H is incorrect, the new monitoring/data capture, especially the PDA actuals, will hopefully ensure that best practice is used and should curtail the early starters, no meal relief runners antics, if your PDA constantly shows you going over and another PDA shows that there is time available elsewhere the new software that they want to introduce would automatically re-align the workload. It will also ensure that all hours worked should be accountable so no more not booking overtime just for a quiet life. So by starting on time, taking your meal breaks and using the correct delivery methods will result in a less stressful environment because the PDA and other monitoring hardware will prove you are doing things correctly and at a reasonable speed and so management will have to ensure all workloads are balanced.
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You have a very optimistic view of the future. I will be very much surprised if much of what you say comes to pass. I somewhat agree that rushing around by a lot of people could and probably has been used by RM to bring us to the present situation where walks cannot be completed within paid hours. In return Postie's generally arrive at work before start time, don't feel they have time to take any of their break time or don't really have anywhere to take it, land still end up going over time at the other end !
The PDA could be used to check the length of walks and amend our pay if we had to go over time to complete the walk. Or that data could be used to amend walk lengths if they were too long. But I don't expect to see either of those things happening.
The relevant paragraph on page 30 of the proposal/agreement does not mention anything about being able to book overtime if we go over time on delivery. If you try and chase that thing up now stuff tends to happen. Definitely not the way to find a less stressful life.

Spedley · Post by **Spedley** » 04 Feb 2018, 13:14

fishtank wrote:You may have to take what's offered but you don't have to accept that it's a good thing, voting yes to an agreement just because you don't think there's anything better on offer is crazy. Either the deal stands on its own and deserves your support as an individual member or it doesn't in which case you have no other option but to vote no. That's the whole point of voting.

I don't follow you.
Voting yes to an agreement when there is nothing better is entirely the point, vote yes or leave. If you think the agreement could be better then vote no.

Post by **Sugar** » 04 Feb 2018, 15:05

mr hil. wrote:There is acknowledgement in the deal of the "poor moral" in DOs, especially due to lack of resources, with a plan of action to address any issues, so all this talk of nothing being done to redress the B&H is incorrect, the new monitoring/data capture, especially the PDA actuals, will hopefully ensure that best practice is used and should curtail the early starters, no meal relief runners antics, if your PDA constantly shows you going over and another PDA shows that there is time available elsewhere the new software that they want to introduce would automatically re-align the workload. It will also ensure that all hours worked should be accountable so no more not booking overtime just for a quiet life. So by starting on time, taking your meal breaks and using the correct delivery methods will result in a less stressful environment because the PDA and other monitoring hardware will prove you are doing things correctly and at a reasonable speed and so management will have to ensure all workloads are balanced.

As I posted in another thread our DIM told everyone in not so many words that once the agreement gets voted in it'll be business as usual and they can go home when they are finished. If this has happened in our DO how many DO's up and down the country have DIM's with exactly the same attitude?

cubanpete · Post by **cubanpete** » 04 Feb 2018, 15:34

If you don't think it's good deal you vote no. Not only do I think the CWU have agreed to a deal that in areas is so airey fairy its not worth the paper it's written on. Aspirations, visions et all are and never will be recognised by mediators courts etc if Royal Mail choose to do what they like and the CWU don't agree with it. Factual information is all that counts. So the pay offer is it good or bad? IMO not good. The pension is it good or bad? It's so bad it's unfathomable how or why a union would fight for it. Even the SWW are subject to trials (that have not been explained). It's like telling a child they'll get a treat if they do well in their exams but not defining what you mean by 'do well' At best you are putting you faith in the power brokers at Royal Mail treating you fairly and rewarding hard work and success from it's employees. Have Royal Mail agreed to a complete cull of managers, directors and CEO that have treated their employees so unfairly over the years? No. Do I believe leopards can change their spots? No. Bullying and harrasment will continue to be rife and the reduction to 38 hour (and eventually 35 hour) will never happen IMO.

datasaint · Post by **datasaint** » 05 Feb 2018, 17:34

I don't think it's a particularly great offer. Not when you consider the 89% ballot vote, the CWU had the power in their hands. The pension proposal isn't concrete, PTers are overlooked again, and it's not clear how the SWW is going to be implemented if at all.

TheTrolleyMan · Post by **TheTrolleyMan** » 05 Feb 2018, 18:29

If it sounds too good to be true ........

woofwoof · Post by **woofwoof** » 05 Feb 2018, 19:03

So a 5% pay rise on overtime and allowances...due to this deal and the LAT, SWW how many are going to lose overtime and allowances

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 05 Feb 2018, 19:27

I can't see the SWW ever being introduced. If anything we need hours putting in, not taken out

Jpro747 · Post by **Jpro747** » 05 Feb 2018, 20:24

I’m voting NO. We can still negotiate a better deal imo. The 89% has been forgotten about, most people want this deal sorted asap so they can get their hands on the back pay. This is why RM were dragging it out for so long.

joe379 · Post by **joe379** » 05 Feb 2018, 20:49

Will be a no vote from me, later start times and terrible pension deal the reasons being. A surprisingly big backlash against this deal in our office, more so than any deal for a long time.

BoltonPostie · Post by **BoltonPostie** » 05 Feb 2018, 21:14

Ward and co don't give a f**k about the members. They are only interested in the customer and brown nosing the likes of Moya and co, that's why they have a no strike deal.

Speaking at the briefing of national reps, Dave said: "This is the best possible agreement for the new private ownership environment. The agreement meets the union's aim of putting growth in the forefront of the future rather than managed decline and the agreement needs to be viewed in the context of that new environment.

"Customer expectations are changing," he said, adding: "Putting customers first is right and this will secure the future of the industry."

martybhoy39 · Post by **martybhoy39** » 05 Feb 2018, 22:18

Does nobody listen on this Site.
"We are on the cusp of something really special"
The words of the main man
So if the main man tells us "the SHEEP" (for that is all we are)this is special then we must vote YES for he knows better than any off us,
he does!! dosent he..
Dont Let Them Pull The Wool Over Your Eyes..NO DEAL

gary1975 · Post by **gary1975** » 06 Feb 2018, 06:24

Out of intrest does this deal have this whole mediation process still included before we can go on strike when we say we will,or could we be taken to court again and look like a bunch off fools,we had them by the balls just before Xmas and lost a lot of momentum

RTP · Post by **RTP** » 06 Feb 2018, 12:58

Regarding pensions, what are peoples actual aspirations for a better pension? Not being funny, just a genuine question.

We were told that the pot in the current scheme will shortly be in the red.

We've just heard about Capita with a £381m pension deficit.

We've just heard about Carillions £600m - £800m pension deficit and their collapse.

So were do we go from here. Strike and hope that RM pay double what they pay now into the current scheme. Is that sustainable?

I'm no expert, but something would have to give surely if that happened.

What I would have liked to see would have been the current schemes stay as they are now for another year while both sides try and push on with the legislation. It would focus minds more that way. Now I know those in the inferior scheme might feel hard done by, but that is the scheme they signed up for, just as those in the DB scheme signed up or were pushed into that scheme and knew what they were getting. These schemes should be honored.

However it may be too late to do that now anyway.

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 06 Feb 2018, 15:51

For me personally it's the moving forward of start times and that I don't trust them to sort the issue of walks being made too long or work being done unpaid that leads me to a no vote. I don't like or really see the need for the SWW either as the work for that hour/s will still be there to do and RM aren't going to employ more staff on the back of it. I also don't like the crazier ideas such as getting rid of the sorting frames or a possible one or two hour window for tracked items.

The pay deal is neither here nor there and could be viewed as yet another bribe given all the working condition changes and crazy stuff. As far as the pension scheme goes most pension scheme in this country of whatever variety are all in big trouble. It all goes back to years ago in the boom time when they all took pension holidays. After that there seems to have been a great deal of mismanagement and a lack of intelligent investment of the funds.