Is it a good offer? I need convincing.

[aiden01]

is anyone getting an above inflation payrise??

[k979aaa]

Correct me if I'm wrong but has bullying,unrealistic workloads,p/t workers holiday/sick pay when working near on f/t hours been addressed.

This and the under inflation and nearly a year late payrise

Not a very good deal in my opinion especially when you consider the vote for strike action I'm sure better could have been had.

Don't really understand the pension and the later starts don't bother me.funny enough the people at our place moaning about the later finishes are the ones who work later doing o/t anyway

Well in the agreement hybrid duties will remove their overtime but as for pensions complete sellout but even worse is the lack of the top of your post is not addressed and some of it will be attacked ie sick pay but the attitude of management and cost savings for personal gain has not been addressed by this agreement.

[tucker12345]

This deal is far from good read past the pay rise that’s not that great there is to many grey areas , it seems to me Royal fail will get what they want just a bit later than they first wanted . Trials trials trials read the agreement its all the stuff they was on about when all this started .

[mr hil.]

I do not know where this twelve minutes a day has come from, the proposal mentions innovative duty structures and attendance patterns, it also states that many deliveries are expected to be completed by 14.30 with the "local" expertise/knowledge being used to plan things and a promise to attempt to help find solutions for anybody with genuine problems that any changes may throw up.

There is acknowledgement in the deal of the "poor moral" in DOs, especially due to lack of resources, with a plan of action to address any issues, so all this talk of nothing being done to redress the B&H is incorrect, the new monitoring/data capture, especially the PDA actuals, will hopefully ensure that best practice is used and should curtail the early starters, no meal relief runners antics, if your PDA constantly shows you going over and another PDA shows that there is time available elsewhere the new software that they want to introduce would automatically re-align the workload. It will also ensure that all hours worked should be accountable so no more not booking overtime just for a quiet life. So by starting on time, taking your meal breaks and using the correct delivery methods will result in a less stressful environment because the PDA and other monitoring hardware will prove you are doing things correctly and at a reasonable speed and so management will have to ensure all workloads are balanced.

Part timers who constantly work overtime will have the chance to increase their contracted hours to reflect the actual hours they have worked, alas not guaranteed, and the same as in the last agreement but a new mandatory reporting process of the 6 monthly reviews should see their hours increased more consistently.

The pension is very complicated but what I took from the "words" are that the aspirations for the new scheme, when it gets going, are to give us the same benefits that we would currently expect to get if the old pension had not closed, this is a bold statement to make and I am sure they would not have included it if they thought they could not deliver it. Obviously the usual prices can rise as well as fall had to be included too. Also the proposal gives a 12 month deadline to introduce the new scheme or it will be renegotiated, so the Union have headed off any chance of being strung along indefinitely on the inferior DB.BBC.ITV scheme.

When you read the whole deal you understand where the Union has been fighting for us and I think that in the current climate and considering the starting point, we have been served a relatively good deal

[SpacePhoenix]

Interesting bit about all new full time recruits from October 2018 will be on a 35 hour week from day one. All the pro-rata stuff will be the same as the 38/39 hour full-timers the only difference will be they will only be paid for 35 hours, so effectively part time pay with full time benefits.

When do you ever hear of anyone being recruited ft havent had any in mc for god knows how long.

Think most if not all the new staff in recent years (what few of them) have been DO staff transferring to the MC. Not unusual at times for some shifts some days for the staff "proper" to the shift being outnumbered (sometimes greatly) by people doing ot and agency/casual staff

[k979aaa]

I do not know where this twelve minutes a day has come from, the proposal mentions innovative duty structures and attendance patterns, it also states that many deliveries are expected to be completed by 14.30 with the "local" expertise/knowledge being used to plan things and a promise to attempt to help find solutions for anybody with genuine problems that any changes may throw up.

There is acknowledgement in the deal of the "poor moral" in DOs, especially due to lack of resources, with a plan of action to address any issues, so all this talk of nothing being done to redress the B&H is incorrect, the new monitoring/data capture, especially the PDA actuals, will hopefully ensure that best practice is used and should curtail the early starters, no meal relief runners antics, if your PDA constantly shows you going over and another PDA shows that there is time available elsewhere the new software that they want to introduce would automatically re-align the workload. It will also ensure that all hours worked should be accountable so no more not booking overtime just for a quiet life. So by starting on time, taking your meal breaks and using the correct delivery methods will result in a less stressful environment because the PDA and other monitoring hardware will prove you are doing things correctly and at a reasonable speed and so management will have to ensure all workloads are balanced.

Part timers who constantly work overtime will have the chance to increase their contracted hours to reflect the actual hours they have worked, alas not guaranteed, and the same as in the last agreement but a new mandatory reporting process of the 6 monthly reviews should see their hours increased more consistently.

The pension is very complicated but what I took from the "words" are that the aspirations for the new scheme, when it gets going, are to give us the same benefits that we would currently expect to get if the old pension had not closed, this is a bold statement to make and I am sure they would not have included it if they thought they could not deliver it. Obviously the usual prices can rise as well as fall had to be included too. Also the proposal gives a 12 month deadline to introduce the new scheme or it will be renegotiated, so the Union have headed off any chance of being strung along indefinitely on the inferior DB.BBC.ITV scheme.

When you read the whole deal you understand where the Union has been fighting for us and I think that in the current climate and considering the starting point, we have been served a relatively good deal

When you say about the pension and the same benefits in the new scheme and bold statements I have seen them before and it was a joke went form final salary to defined contribution scheme and now the proposed piss in a pot and see what you get scheme in ten years how can this be right the only person who can justify it is the CEO as it is in their interests!

[Celgar]

is anyone getting an above inflation payrise??

No one does ever to be honest as government inflation figures do not include everything such property rent increases, house price rises etc etc so the inflation figures bandied about are never correct. Whether its CPI or RPI based doesn't help that much either.

[clashcityrocker]

I particularly like the bit about them not using data capture and "enhanced visibility" for conduct purposes.
Unless they want to ask someone at HR if they can.

Is there any guidelines anywhere as to what will (or what will not) be deemed an acceptable use of data capture for conduct purposes?
Or does this agreement actually say - "we won't use data capture for conduct purposes but we will if and when it suits us".

[clashcityrocker]

And in answer to the original question - no it is not a good offer.
It is a crock of shite from start to finish.

I understand where the CWU is coming from and what it was trying to do but it has failed miserably.
18 months and we were on the cusp of something very special Ha ha ha (Bonk)

[Dexydog]

While the SWW is obviously welcome, let's think about what it actually means.
In October, provided all the terms and conditions are met, an hour per week will be taken off all full-timers and part-timers will get a 2.6% pay rise.
All they will say is come in 12 minutes later a day.
The same work will still need doing and the pipeline won't have moved, no extra mail will have been meched.
In my view you leave an extra 12 minutes work at the end, or book overtime.
So it's a good thing and can't be argued otherwise.

[Spedley]

Also, when voting you need to consider if you think voting no will get you a better deal.

I find it highly likely that this will be voted in but if it is a no vote then it will be by a slim majority and the 89% Yes in the ballot will be meaningless. The union will then have to negotiate without the threat of strike action and with a lack of confidence from it's members.

[yellowbelly]

Part timers who constantly work overtime will have the chance to increase their contracted hours to reflect the actual hours they have worked, alas not guaranteed, and the same as in the last agreement but a new mandatory reporting process of the 6 monthly reviews should see their hours increased more consistently.

mr h - they added a caveat to this - the words were 'where appropriate' - a bit vague to say the least, who decides what is or isn't 'appropriate'

.....the aspirations for the new scheme, when it gets going,...

- hmmm needs to put into law as far as I understand so it's not a 'when' yet, it's an IF. Hope I'm wrong but I can see it now, Govt. too busy with Brexit for the next 18
months blah blah blah, employees stuck in two transition schemes, one of which is at a lower rate for recent starters!

[clashcityrocker]

Also, when voting you need to consider if you think voting no will get you a better deal.

No you don't.
Will I vote for a pay deal that will effectively be a pay cut when inflation is factored in? No.
Will I vote for a half-arsed aspirational pension plan that is worse than the one I am currently in and appears worse than RM's initial proposal? No.

I know full well that the CWU won't get a better deal but that doesn't mean I have to accept what is on put on my plate.
Accepting mediocrity is never a valid standpoint.

[Spedley]

Also, when voting you need to consider if you think voting no will get you a better deal.

No you don't.
Will I vote for a pay deal that will effectively be a pay cut when inflation is factored in? No.
Will I vote for a half-arsed aspirational pension plan that is worse than the one I am currently in and appears worse than RM's initial proposal? No.

I know full well that the CWU won't get a better deal but that doesn't mean I have to accept what is on put on my plate.
Accepting mediocrity is never a valid standpoint.

I'm not sure what the point of voting is then? Is it to express your opinion on the deal or say whether you will accept the deal? At some point you will have to compromise and take what is offered.

[fishtank]

You may have to take what's offered but you don't have to accept that it's a good thing, voting yes to an agreement just because you don't think there's anything better on offer is crazy. Either the deal stands on its own and deserves your support as an individual member or it doesn't in which case you have no other option but to vote no. That's the whole point of voting.