Don't accept a deal for worse pensions and pay in Royal Mail

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 30 Jan 2018, 17:07

https://socialistworker.co.uk/art/46038 ... Royal+Mail" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Postal workers’ union leaders and Royal Mail bosses have reached an agreement to end a major dispute and are calling on workers to back it.

In a joint statement released on Friday of last week Royal Mail and the CWU union said they had “finalised” a proposed agreement over pensions, pay and conditions.

If CWU members back the deal it would end a dispute that last year saw workers vote by almost 90 percent for national strikes.

Updates on talks since the strike vote suggest that bosses made concessions, including on shift patterns and a shorter working week.

They have also dropped plans to impose a “defined contribution” (DC) pension scheme on all Royal Mail workers. This would have left workers’ pensions at the mercy of the stock market, with thousands worse off.

Now bosses and union leaders want a “collective defined contribution”—or defined ambition—scheme.

This could be an improvement for workers already on the DC scheme as it guarantees a set wage in retirement. It also means all Royal Mail workers would be on a single scheme—one of the CWU’s key demands.

Depends

But the amount paid out still depends on the pension’s stock market value when workers retire. That means workers currently on a defined benefit pension scheme—anyone who began work for Royal Mail before 2008—will lose out.

Full details of the agreement—including the pay offer—had not been released as Socialist Worker went to press. It will have to be voted on by CWU members and approved by the Royal Mail board.

The deal was set to be presented to the CWU’s postal executive committee this week before being circulated to union branches and reps.

Union leaders shouldn’t agree to any pension deal that harms tens of thousands of their members while bosses still award themselves huge salaries and dividends.

And they shouldn’t accept any pay deal if it’s below inflation, currently over 4 percent on the RPI measure.

CWU members should be ready to reject any inadequate agreement—and strike for a better deal for all workers.

JKSmudge · Post by **JKSmudge** » 30 Jan 2018, 17:14

And they shouldn’t accept any pay deal if it’s below inflation, currently over 4 percent on the RPI measure

...and yet the union will urge us to accept below inflation rises over 2/3 years and claim a great victory.....

twoloops · Post by **twoloops** » 30 Jan 2018, 17:26

That what we pay our One Hundred & Eighty Five Pounds & Sixteen Pence

a year CWU fees for ...... How much?

deltaforce · Post by **deltaforce** » 30 Jan 2018, 17:32

Easy on the cheap criticism, its all about a balancing act between what we want and the viability of getting it.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 30 Jan 2018, 17:35

deltaforce wrote:Easy on the cheap criticism, its all about a balancing act between what we want and the viability of getting it.

rubberbond · Post by **rubberbond** » 30 Jan 2018, 17:59

Socialists always live in a parallel universe anyway, look at Jeremy Corbyn and his magic mineybtree that he's going to shake to renationalise Royal Mail,not a hope in hell of that happening.

hans solo · Post by **hans solo** » 30 Jan 2018, 19:14

heres the thing
i dont remember anyone asking what we wanted only telling us what rm wanted
and cwu defending what we had
so we are always going to be worse off in that instance

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 30 Jan 2018, 19:29

It makes sense for the socialistworker to paint every deal as a sell out, if you reject everything you never have to commit to anything. Of course you end up with nothing but you can blame everyone.

Post by **Judgee** » 30 Jan 2018, 20:49

Well from the various rumours and posts around it seems potentially what we gain will be ok. What is not so clear is what it will cost us in return?

Post by **Red Robbo** » 31 Jan 2018, 12:34

Judgee wrote:Well from the various rumours and posts around it seems potentially what we gain will be ok. What is not so clear is what it will cost us in return?

There's always a trade off, imagine two brick walls, one RM & the other CWU, one or the other will trade one row of bricks or two rows to achieve their aim, what's important to one may not be to the other. It's how many tiers are left after the trade off is the concern for future negotiations.

banner · Post by **banner** » 31 Jan 2018, 13:10

If the deal included a ferrari and a mansion for every postal worker, the socialist workers would urge a rejection.

Darren Bent · Post by **Darren Bent** » 31 Jan 2018, 13:44

I would prefer an Aston Martin instead ;)

Spedley · Post by **Spedley** » 31 Jan 2018, 14:29

I'm looking forward to this deal. I don't expect it to be amazing but I am prepared for a few small trade-offs if the bigger things are sorted, e.g. I can live with 2% pay rise this year if my pension is safe for the next decade - I mean, a 1% pay rise is about £170 in your pocket per year, nothing compared to the £4k per year they wanted to take out of my pension.

micko · Post by **micko** » 03 Feb 2018, 19:30

the pension deal which is on offer is a good one when managed correctly. unfortunately they are illegal in the uk because they were deemed unsafe as they are not guaranteed which means you could potentially loose every penny you pay in and end up with nothing when you retire although this is very unlikely. let me explain a cdc pension scheme in plain english , instead of our pension contributions been dealt with individually all our contributions will be pooled together and invested in higher ammounts which means bigger returns which is good. people in holland who use the scheme are seeing 30 per cent increases on there pension pot compared to there previous pension scheme. fantastic sign me up .BUT there is also downsides to the scheme 1 your pension is not guaranteed if we have another bank crisis or stock exchange collapse or even possibly brexit you could potentially loose every penny 2 they are currently illegal under government legislation 3 under this new scheme you will be leaving royal mails guaranteed pension scheme 4 this scheme can only work if there is a steady ammount of people using the scheme if people decide the scheme is not working for them and leave the scheme it will collapse i feel this is going to be a big stumbling block when royal mail try to ammend the scheme and try to get legislation passed .as i do not yet no all the ammendments royal mail are making i cannot comment weather this scheme will work or not . if run correctly like mentioned above they can be very rewarding in terms of personnal gain in order for this to happen the pension scheme SHOULD NOT be guaranteed. as this may be shock to you i will explain why. by guarantee n the cdc scheme it will put a strangle hold on how the money is invested. for example under your current scheme your money is invested in to commodities which are safe but dont give a lot in return. so your pension stays stagnant with no growth.under the new scheme your money will be invested in a totally different way with more risk factors but bigger returns but still deemed as safe investments and thats were the growth in your pension pot comes from .finally will i join the new cdc scheme yes only because i have a small pension and only paid in for 3 years basically if it does go tits up i havent much to loose ill take the risk . if i would have had a good pension and paid in for a lot of years i would not join simply because the risks are to high. good for new starters and people with small pension bad for long term pension contributors i hope this has helped explain what the cdc pension is about

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 03 Feb 2018, 21:32

micko wrote:the pension deal which is on offer is a good one when managed correctly. unfortunately they are illegal in the uk because they were deemed unsafe as they are not guaranteed which means you could potentially loose every penny you pay in and end up with nothing when you retire although this is very unlikely. let me explain a cdc pension scheme in plain english , instead of our pension contributions been dealt with individually all our contributions will be pooled together and invested in higher ammounts which means bigger returns which is good. people in holland who use the scheme are seeing 30 per cent increases on there pension pot compared to there previous pension scheme. fantastic sign me up .BUT there is also downsides to the scheme 1 your pension is not guaranteed if we have another bank crisis or stock exchange collapse or even possibly brexit you could potentially loose every penny 2 they are currently illegal under government legislation 3 under this new scheme you will be leaving royal mails guaranteed pension scheme 4 this scheme can only work if there is a steady ammount of people using the scheme if people decide the scheme is not working for them and leave the scheme it will collapse i feel this is going to be a big stumbling block when royal mail try to ammend the scheme and try to get legislation passed .as i do not yet no all the ammendments royal mail are making i cannot comment weather this scheme will work or not . if run correctly like mentioned above they can be very rewarding in terms of personnal gain in order for this to happen the pension scheme SHOULD NOT be guaranteed. as this may be shock to you i will explain why. by guarantee n the cdc scheme it will put a strangle hold on how the money is invested. for example under your current scheme your money is invested in to commodities which are safe but dont give a lot in return. so your pension stays stagnant with no growth.under the new scheme your money will be invested in a totally different way with more risk factors but bigger returns but still deemed as safe investments and thats were the growth in your pension pot comes from .finally will i join the new cdc scheme yes only because i have a small pension and only paid in for 3 years basically if it does go tits up i havent much to loose ill take the risk . if i would have had a good pension and paid in for a lot of years i would not join simply because the risks are to high. good for new starters and people with small pension bad for long term pension contributors i hope this has helped explain what the cdc pension is about

And posties will leave the scheme because the job is too hard to do now for 48 years of pension contributions ie 19 to 67 the pension scheme was finished because we and the CWU by definition us did not defend it in the first instance back in 2006 we can lament in our own poverty at our leisure or work till we drop!

ROYALMAILCHAT