Don't abandon the CWU!!!!!

Fluke · Post by **Fluke** » 31 Oct 2007, 17:16

I have been with RM for only 10 years and a rep for nearly all 10 of those years, I have recruited and sung the praises of the union to all who would listen. This past year I have lost faith in the union, locally and nationally, and I cant justify belonging to it any more.

Locally, disagreements have been trampled on by other unit reps as they fight to secure their own shifts and its harder to get support from a branch that appears to be wrapped up in itself. Nationally, the CWU appears completely detached from its membership as shown by the current deal they are trying to pedal.

People in my office are completely hacked off with being ignored locally and nationally by their own union. For the first time, I am starting to hear members with 20 and 30 years service talking of pulling out from the CWU, there are even calls for whole functions to withdraw from the union en mass.

Last night during a WTL session, I had to break the news that CWU subs are set to rise and its a wonder I wasn't lynched. We cant vote people in or out of union positions as our office only has a small number of about 250 people, nearly all our branch officials are from the same office. So how do we go about getting ourselfs heard?

johnnyp · Post by **johnnyp** » 31 Oct 2007, 17:18

grover6912 wrote:We've come along way from no rise in pensionable pay at all just a lump sum. We''ve have got the Union back in everything that happens in the workplace. If you can't negotiate what you want locally use the IR Framework. Royal Mail told their managers this was the end of the CWU after 3 days of strikes we would all drift back to work but we are still here our powder is dry to fight another day. Crozier said he would only talk to the Union to spell out the facts not negotiate. Crozier said we were overpaid now he's offering us more pay all pensionable. Crozier wanted to steal Â£1.6 billion from our already earned pensions he's been caught with his hands in our pockets and said "it's a fair cop guv". Royal Mail were going to withdraw from MTSF now it's in the first paragraph of the agreement. We might have some later starts but noone loses any money. As for so called flexibility I don't know a Postie in my office who if asked to work an extra 30 minutes couldn't argue for so long it wouldn't be worth their while bothering.

Ok we haven't won on pensions but the result of the consultations will go out to ballot of all affected members and we can vote no if it's not acceptable and fight on.

The results of the joint working parties will also come out to ballot if anything at all is agreed. All right they will be discussing monthly pay but until they pay us an extra 3 weeks pay to tied us over from the last weekly pay to the 1st monthly pay.

This is not the end of the Union we haven't achieved all we want but we have stopped Royal Mail in their tracks. Our strikes were solid Royal Mail are still recovering. We need to recruit the non-members in our offices so we are even stronger next time. For the 3rd time in 4 years we have stopped Royal Mail by-passing the Union and going straight to us the members. We have stopped their executive action. We have stopped their punishment charter against our reps. Any revisions introduced during week commencing 22 October will be reviewed in line with the IR procedures.

Of course we all have issues with the way the dispute has been conducted and the information blackouts and there are parts of the agreement that are unpalitable to some but we should deal with national representatives when the time comes for re-election. We achieve nothing by throwing in our cards except allowing Crozier to claim he's snatching victory from the jaws of defeat.

This is not the end of the dispute just a victory on the way. Those who want to fight will have plenty to fight about in the future but let us capture what has been achieved.

Well said and agree 100%

strangler · Post by **strangler** » 31 Oct 2007, 17:38

grover6912 wrote: Ok we haven't won on pensions but the result of the consultations will go out to ballot of all affected members and we can vote no if it's not acceptable and fight on.

The results of the joint working parties will also come out to ballot if anything at all is agreed.

It has been said elsewhere by Jafferpants (knows about pensions) that the ink is dry regarding pensions we`ll all be in the 'care' scheme by april 08 regardless of any pension ballot it`s already been drawn up. Forget everything else this single issue will cost us more than any other I`ll be voting NO.

KawasakiKid · Post by **KawasakiKid** » 31 Oct 2007, 18:16

:cfo :lfo Get real 'grover', when my DIM read the agreement his words to me were 'Royal Mail have got everything they wanted'. How is that anywhere near good. Local negotiations mean we will be shafted because we have no power. VOTE NO------------KWAKOFF

Post by **dvbuk55** » 31 Oct 2007, 18:27

[quote="grover6912"]We've come along way from no rise in pensionable pay at all just a lump sum. We''ve have got the Union back in everything that happens in the workplace. If you can't negotiate what you want locally use the IR Framework. Royal Mail told their managers this was the end of the CWU after 3 days of strikes we would all drift back to work but we are still here our powder is dry to fight another day. Crozier said he would only talk to the Union to spell out the facts not negotiate. Crozier said we were overpaid now he's offering us more pay all pensionable. Crozier wanted to steal Â£1.6 billion from our already earned pensions he's been caught with his hands in our pockets and said "it's a fair cop guv". Royal Mail were going to withdraw from MTSF now it's in the first paragraph of the agreement. We might have some later starts but noone loses any money. As for so called flexibility I don't know a Postie in my office who if asked to work an extra 30 minutes couldn't argue for so long it wouldn't be worth their while bothering.

Ok we haven't won on pensions but the result of the consultations will go out to ballot of all affected members and we can vote no if it's not acceptable and fight on.

The results of the joint working parties will also come out to ballot if anything at all is agreed. All right they will be discussing monthly pay but until they pay us an extra 3 weeks pay to tied us over from the last weekly pay to the 1st monthly pay.

This is not the end of the Union we haven't achieved all we want but we have stopped Royal Mail in their tracks. Our strikes were solid Royal Mail are still recovering. We need to recruit the non-members in our offices so we are even stronger next time. For the 3rd time in 4 years we have stopped Royal Mail by-passing the Union and going straight to us the members. We have stopped their executive action. We have stopped their punishment charter against our reps. Any revisions introduced during week commencing 22 October will be reviewed in line with the IR procedures.

Of course we all have issues with the way the dispute has been conducted and the information blackouts and there are parts of the agreement that are unpalitable to some but we should deal with national representatives when the time comes for re-election. We achieve nothing by throwing in our cards except allowing Crozier to claim he's snatching victory from the jaws of defeat.

This is not the end of the dispute just a victory on the way. Those who want to fight will have plenty to fight about in the future but let us capture what has been achieved.

[quote]

You are obviously an optimist with the cup half full.

Get Real guy - Crozier snatching victory from the jaws of defeat? Crozier my friend is laughing all the way to the bank. In case you are having a senior moment there was an offer of 2.5% on the table originally - we could have had that in April for flexibility, signing away the pension, early starts etc etc etc - no one in their right mind believes the union has done anything but save face.

davidessex · Post by **davidessex** » 31 Oct 2007, 18:38

when re election time comes around, it.s hayes cronies who compete with each other ie poeople of the same ilk, also some positions are uncontested lets wait to see the outcome of the ballot and the pec,s reaction to it. then if we still feel the need to remove the " 9 " ( assuming we get a no vote and they fail then to act in accordance with our wishes ) we must find out if there is a way to remove them. if not , then removing yourself from their payrole ( leave the cwu ) has to be an option. remember that at the end of the day if rm treat you illegally you can hire a solicitor and take them to court. if they don,t treat you illegally then even the cwu can,t help you. you have a responsibility to carry out your duties on a daily basis, if it comes to a point where you can,t do the job anymore you will be sacked for that reason alone. the job is already getting harder for older postmen, this deal does nothing to suggest it is going to get any easier.

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 31 Oct 2007, 21:17

Planet Grover calling earth ,can anyone hear me?

Come in Grover you forgot lots of stuff

Tread · Post by **Tread** » 31 Oct 2007, 21:21

I've been a postie and Union member for 20 years and was on our union committee for a while but lost heart after that way forward bag of shite.
How ever I've been really inpressed with the membership dureing this dispute and have told my Rep that I want to be more active again not only that but I want to find a way I can make a difference.
Don't loose heart with the Union now Lads and Lass's its now we have to stick togeather, Remember Every Dog has its day and ours is comeing.

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 31 Oct 2007, 21:36

Tread wrote:I've been a postie and Union member for 20 years and was on our union committee for a while but lost heart after that way forward bag of shite.
How ever I've been really inpressed with the membership dureing this dispute and have told my Rep that I want to be more active again not only that but I want to find a way I can make a difference.
Don't loose heart with the Union now Lads and Lass's its now we have to stick togeather, Remember Every Dog has its day and ours is comeing.

Good news Tread.

I'm gonna be a Tosa Inu ,banned , mostly silent but in a fight the most deadly.

Post by **mdecwu** » 31 Oct 2007, 21:58

I've been a postie and Union member for 20 years and was on our union committee for a while but lost heart after that way forward bag of shite.
How ever I've been really inpressed with the membership dureing this dispute and have told my Rep that I want to be more active again not only that but I want to find a way I can make a difference.
Don't loose heart with the Union now Lads and Lass's its now we have to stick togeather, Remember Every Dog has its day and ours is comeing.

I can only applaud these sentiments and for all those of you whose spirits are waining take heart the membership WAS solid and will be when it is again called upon - because the alternative does not bear thinking about - a non-unionised workforce are just whipping boys.[/quote]

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 31 Oct 2007, 22:02

Most of us Aint Waining we are getting increasingly pissed off. Theres a storm a brewin

KawasakiKid · Post by **KawasakiKid** » 31 Oct 2007, 22:20

:lfo :cfo It could be a TORNADO------------KWAKKIN HELL

Malatesta1954 · Post by **Malatesta1954** » 31 Oct 2007, 22:50

It's our Union we don't give up and walk away because we haven't got everything we want in this deal. We've never had a deal where we achieve everything we want without giving something in return. Union's by their nature are reactive organisations and try and stop management's worse proposals from seeing the light of day and negotiate on the rest. I do not understand the argument that this is a bad agreement because it enshrines the Union in the workplace it would be far worse without a Union and management doing everything that they liked without question.

Royal Mail wanted Attendance, Conduct and Performance dealt with in the round by local managers setting their own standards and making dismissals on that basis that's been shunted into a siding in a talking shop called relationships. Annualised hours, monthly pay in another talking shop called new reward framework.

This is not the greatest deal ever by a long chalk but to ignore what gains the Union has made and be prepared to throw those away because you haven't got everything you want takes some bl**dy mindedness.

Are those of you calling for a "no" vote expecting, if there is one, the same negotiators to achieve what they have been unable to achieve in the past 6 months? A lot of you appear to have no faith in them anyway.

I am an optimist, when not suicidal, maybe others read more into flexibility than me, but we need to be honest with ourselves and there is nothing there that doesn't happen in other companies and has done for years.

Kawasakikid have you considered that your DUM is saying that to wind you up and put you against the Union?

Managers in our area were told they would have a free hand to make changes, when they saw the deal putting the Union back in the workplace at every stage they were gutted. Some of the senior ones who believed their own propaganda have gone into hiding.

Local negotiations mean that if you can't agree locally you use the IR Framework. Branches, Area Reps and Divisional Committees have to make sure no office is left alone to be picked off. If you can come out solid in the national dispute you can come out solid in local disputes. Get a 100% yes vote for industrial action in your office and be surprised how quickly they will talk to you instead of taking industrial action.

I can't stop Crazier laughing all the way to the bank Nu Labor drew up his contract.

If it wasn't for the Union we wouldn't have a deal (good or bad) to vote. We might have our differences but not one of us would give Layton or Dozier the time of day. They thought they could buy us with employee share lump sums behind the unions back and they have failed abysmally.

We have shown great unity over the past months and whether the deal is accepted and we go on to fight over pensions, office savings, the 1.5% and all the things that have been duck shoved so far or the deal is rejected and we carry on the fight over everything, the only way RM will take us seriously is if we are united in each and everyone of those fights.

One Workforce One Union

KawasakiKid · Post by **KawasakiKid** » 31 Oct 2007, 23:06

:lfo :cfo 'quote' Kawasakikid have you considered that your DUM is saying that to wind you up and put you against the Union? 'unquote' Just looking at my DUM winds me up!!!!!!!!!-------------------KWAK

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 31 Oct 2007, 23:39

Grover Iwant your ,house your partner ,your future ,your time your garden and your dog.
Oh okay lets have a local agreement on your dog an garden
hands up all those who'll strike in defence of Grovers local dog an garden. Think I might BE underwhelmed ,feel free to disagree just talking practicallity you understand