Multi bundle system

[Alexei]

Our biggest mistake was to allow the use of planning tools like Pegasus while trying to introduce new delivery methods. I don't really blame members for giving up on trolleys. In a lot of cases they're not suitable anyway due to terrain and types of housing, the jury is out on whether they're any better from a musculoskeletal point of view and in most cases members have split loops down to the point where a trolley is pointless and they're carrying less than 5kg.

A trolley will not add 2 hrs onto a duty, poor planning will so I'm not sure how bleating on about the correct use of equipment would have made much if any difference to whether the duties were revised.

Speaking from experience, I found the LWT to be useful in new build housing estates which were all flat, with lots of room to manoeuvre, whereas with old 50's style terraced housing, where two houses share a communal stairway, with stairs to each front door ( imagine a T ), it added a substantial amount of time. So I feel it has its uses, but it's in no way a panacea.

[citypostie]

it would as the sequenced mail would be in a tray and wouldn't be put in your frame , and the tray would be put on a new design lwt , so the runners wouldn't be runners anymore as they will have to use a trolley , oh dear

And thats why if its trialled itll be dumped quicker than world class mail, they wont want everyone slowing down and causing overtime and cut offs to rocket. It will end up being a return to bags on shoulder but with smaller bags and loops split down

back to carrying bags ? I haven't carried a bag for over 7 years since we went to p&l , use lwt everyday every loop so that's one thing I wont be doing is carrying bags .

What if you get told lwt aren't to be used anymore because they aren't efficient and loops are to be broken down so bags are to be used. You will then or will you carry on using a lwt even if it isn't the correct method anymore

[worktotime]

it would as the sequenced mail would be in a tray and wouldn't be put in your frame , and the tray would be put on a new design lwt , so the runners wouldn't be runners anymore as they will have to use a trolley , oh dear

And thats why if its trialled itll be dumped quicker than world class mail, they wont want everyone slowing down and causing overtime and cut offs to rocket. It will end up being a return to bags on shoulder but with smaller bags and loops split down

back to carrying bags ? I haven't carried a bag for over 7 years since we went to p&l , use lwt everyday every loop so that's one thing I wont be doing is carrying bags .

What if you get told lwt aren't to be used anymore because they aren't efficient and loops are to be broken down so bags are to be used. You will then or will you carry on using a lwt even if it isn't the correct method anymore

they would have a good job trying to split our 1600 calls into smaller loops and who would do all the pkts and parcels ? because I'm the driver and theres no difference between the loops. , so I don't have time , that's why we put everything on the lwts.

[worktotime]

I just cant see what the problem is with using the lwts , you have 2 options if it takes you longer claim the o/t or take mail back its not rocket science and they make the job easyier with no lumping bags about on your back and most importantly your protecting your job

[TheTrolleyMan]

Using mandatory equipment protects jobs !

[fishtank]

Using mandatory equipment protects jobs !

Not necessarily.

If we assume that we're back in 2010 and everybody decides to use the mandatory equipment and suddenly every duty is booking an extra hour on delivery how do you think the business would have dealt with that massive increase in labour costs.

A) Adjust every duty and take on thousands more staff increasing their wage bill and reducing efficiency.

B) Look at a more radical ways to reduce labour costs like franchising, outsourcing, higher part-time ratios, cutting allowances, banking/annualised hours

Do you think Royal Mail would have signed up to the legal protections that "protect jobs" in 2013 if labour costs had soared in 2010? Do you think we would have had the pay rises, would the pension changes have been more radical, would the business have even survived?

Not everything is as simple as it seems.

[NewPostieUK]

Speaking from experience, I found the LWT to be useful in new build housing estates which were all flat, with lots of room to manoeuvre, whereas with old 50's style terraced housing, where two houses share a communal stairway, with stairs to each front door ( imagine a T ), it added a substantial amount of time. So I feel it has its uses, but it's in no way a panacea.

In my experience a trolley is better there. I leave the trolley at the bottom and skip up the stairs to the two fronts doors. Easier than pulling off bag and putting it on again afterwards, or worse, lugging the bag up the stairs every time.

I find the trolley useful anywhere flat and not busy, such as housing estates rather than main streets in town.

[bmccoll]

I can't get my head round this topic. I use a bag every day for my loops, probably 2-3 bundles in the bag with some packets and one in the hand. What is the problem with that?

[Xr4]

I can't get my head round this topic. I use a bag every day for my loops, probably 2-3 bundles in the bag with some packets and one in the hand. What is the problem with that?

Same here, if it's really heavy or I have loads of packets I then use a trolley. But usually a bag with a few bundles in on my shoulder

[clashcityrocker]

I can't get my head round this topic.?

Me neither.
On the one hand I read on these pages how all walks are unachievable and packets are through the roof but then people can apparently do a 40 minute loop with a couple of bundles and the odd packet.
OPGs break their walks down into smaller loops? It makes me wonder why the business employs/employed any planners at all when the greatest tool for cutting duties was already there - right under their noses.

Why does anyone bother with a union that was set on removing the weight from the shoulder when that isn't what the members actually wanted?

[fishtank]

Why does anyone bother with a union that was set on removing the weight from the shoulder when that isn't what the members actually wanted?

If we left the union every time it pursued a course of action the members didn't want there would be no union.
There was a definite need to reduce the weight members were carrying, A combination of council planning inefficiency, Royal Mail inefficiency and an increase in the weight/size of the items we were carrying meant that the old pouch box system was no longer fit for purpose and members were carrying 16kg+ for the majority of their duty.

It is clearly obvious to anyone that pulling a 32kg lwt should be better for your health than carrying two 16kg bags but what isn't clear is that it's better for your health than splitting the loops and carrying four 8kg bags. There isn't any evidence other than anecdotal.

What I've found personally (again anecdotally) is that a 40 min loop planned for an lwt is only generating on average two bundles of mail, occasionally three, the loops didn't need to be broken down. In order for an lwt to be used effectively the loops would need to double in size but that would need a complete rethink from a planning point of view. I think the biggest impact from not using an lwt is not weight but parcels. There is obviously an increase in the number that need to be delivered by the van.

I'm not really sure how you could accuse members of cutting duties by breaking down walks into smaller loops, the whole " using an lwt adds an hour to my duty" is a pile of nonsense. I've used both systems, continue to use both systems and the actual difference is negligible. Perhaps people are conflating the fact that you tend to use the trolley more when it's busy and that's where the extra time is coming from?

[cpsteve]

I can't get my head round this topic.?

Me neither.
On the one hand I read on these pages how all walks are unachievable and packets are through the roof but then people can apparently do a 40 minute loop with a couple of bundles and the odd packet.
OPGs break their walks down into smaller loops? It makes me wonder why the business employs/employed any planners at all when the greatest tool for cutting duties was already there - right under their noses.

Why does anyone bother with a union that was set on removing the weight from the shoulder when that isn't what the members actually wanted?

Removing the weight was the best thing to happen its made the job far easier on my back less stress on the knees no down-side. Using the trolley when you have a lot of packets saves time IMO but lots of places are just not safe enough to use them so its a case of managing your workload to best effect.

[CharlesSpooner]

There have been OPG's took down the conduct code for not using trolleys. Coincidentally these OPG's were seen as troublemakers due to the fact they didn't want to do OT and would often cut-off. Meanwhile runners have been ignored regardless of delivery method used....same as it ever was

Van sharing is a boon in regards to the van being a portable bag-drop location but wouldn't it be nice for RM & the CWU to have a sensible grown-up policy on the sensible usage of trolleys? I've had loops with one or two bundles this week and it makes no sense to use a trolley in such circumstances. These same loops have also had 10+ bundles on other occasions and it's been entirely correct to use a trolley to get round.