Applications.

[Dorset Plodder]

Just a quick question for you all. Should all Royal Mail employees be given equal opportunities to apply for vacant duties regardless of whether they are Full-Time/Part-Time/Reserve employees?

At one time I would have said there should be a PT Duty List and a FT Duty List. You would have to pick from the appropriate list depending on which contract you were on (i.e You couldn't sign for a 39 Hour Duty if you were only on a 24 hour contract).... However nowadays we've been told that most of the Duties have a similar amount of "Out Door" work and the only difference is the amount of "Indoor work" that they get an OPG to do, prior to starting their Delivery.

We at the coal face know that this is BS. Some of our Duties are so unbalanced that the OPGs can do literally hours of "Indoor Work" (IPS, Packets, Double Prepping etc) and a still manage to get out the door and finish earlier than most.

In answer to your original question: I suppose,in theory, any PTer could sign for any FT Duty... provided their contracted hours covered the "Out Door" Element. Adjustments could be made within the DO to cover the missing indoor hours.

[feduppostie]

RM doesn't employ people who don't have a full UK driving license. They haven't for years. Granted you have to be checked again to make sure but you still have to have passed the driving test.

Lies

That's a bit too strong. Also, we are here to debate so how about expounding why you think its a lie instead of a mistake in a word choice.

BTW. He is right since about a year before CDVs were introduced Royal Mail haven't hired anyone, or at least the vast majority, in deliveries that doesn't hold a valid UK driving licence.

We have had non drivers hired recently but it has to be special circumstances - agency conversion is usually one and the office has to agree to take them as a non driver

[fed_up_postie]

Yes they should..& I personally think seniority is a complete load of crap

Why do you think seniority is a load of crap?? Also if they didn't work on seniority for assignment of walks how would they do it?

[cpsteve]

It matters not how good you do your job or how bad just how long you have worked for the R/M .

[DGH]

Why do you think seniority is a load of crap?? Also if they didn't work on seniority for assignment of walks how would they do it?

By lottery? Draw every five years, perhaps.

That would go a distance to sorting out imbalances between walks because you'd have senior staff squawking about it then.

Or it could be done like in most businesses where adults work and people could simply be assigned to jobs with a view to their skills and suitability (you might not want a twenty stone bloke doing blocks of flats, equally you'd probably want one of your more accurate preppers on a walk that contained Green Close, Green Lane, Greenacres, Greenways, Green Walk, etc.

[fishtank]

Or it could be done like in most businesses where

Most businesses operate some form of seniority for allocating jobs. Go work in a factory and try to get on the night shift if there's a decent premium, try to get that cushy number driving the forklift or be the guy who presses two buttons every hour. Do you think these guys just walked into these jobs?

Newbies in every workplace get the shitty jobs, rotas, days off and annual leave no one else wants. It's a fact of life.

[DGH]

Or it could be done like in most businesses where

Most businesses operate some form of seniority for allocating jobs. Go work in a factory and try to get on the night shift if there's a decent premium, try to get that cushy number driving the forklift or be the guy who presses two buttons every hour. Do you think these guys just walked into these jobs?

Newbies in every workplace get the shitty jobs, rotas, days off and annual leave no one else wants. It's a fact of life.

Mate, I'm well aware that informal seniority is used in many workplaces and that quite often the more mundane tasks are given to new employees. But you would be insane as a head teacher, say, to assign your most troublesome class to the newest teacher in the school - which is pretty much exactly analogous what RM-style seniority achieves. There is a huge difference between, say, having to do the hoovering in a shop as part of your job while someone else sorts out the till for the day and having to actually do more of the same work as someone on the same pay grade (which you do get in RM).

However it's not generally true that they get the holiday allocation nobody else wants - that's unlawful and even RM don't generally stoop to that. Also I don't know what factories you've worked in but in the few I have you need to be qualified to operate a fork-lift.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Why do you think seniority is a load of crap?? Also if they didn't work on seniority for assignment of walks how would they do it?

By lottery? Draw every five years, perhaps.

That would go a distance to sorting out imbalances between walks because you'd have senior staff squawking about it then.

Or it could be done like in most businesses where adults work and people could simply be assigned to jobs with a view to their skills and suitability (you might not want a twenty stone bloke doing blocks of flats, equally you'd probably want one of your more accurate preppers on a walk that contained Green Close, Green Lane, Greenacres, Greenways, Green Walk, etc.

So you advocate giving overweight and inaccurate employees the easy jobs. You've got the latest booklet from Royal Mail haven't you

[k979aaa]

Serve your time and time will serve you!

[fishtank]

The problem as has been pointed out a thousand times on a thousand of these threads is who judges "suitability and skills" in a job that's not supposed to need any particular suitability or skills?

Decent managers don't want to know because they understand that it would lead to accusations of favouritism and nepotism. s**t managers would love it.....need I say any more.

[Dorset Plodder]

It matters not how good you do your job or how bad just how long you have worked for the R/M .

Very True CP. Imagine IF Royal Mail actually did something about incompetent., lazy, useless Posties? Perhaps then you might be able to award the conscientious, hardworking ones? The obvious flaw in that plan is that you'd need to have a contentious hardworking Manager to run the system!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

It matters not how good you do your job or how bad just how long you have worked for the R/M .

Very True CP. Imagine IF Royal Mail actually did something about incompetent., lazy, useless Posties?

They do, they promote them.

[Postie45]

It is the institutionalised nature of seniority that is the problem in RM. That and the infantile 'well I had to go through it' that is regularly trotted out as justification for junior staff having the worst (ie reserve or huge delivery span) jobs.

as others have said, thats not a seniority issue, if duties are unequal,and unachievable its a completely different matter. Yes people may not like it at the bottom of seniority, but theres no better system, it rewards people for staying in the business longer by giving them the duty that THEY prefer (not necessarily the easiest, i know someone who just loves the area hes on and its far from the easiest duty). I thought the same when I was new too - I understood why this system was used, it didnt bother me in the slightest. All you have to do to get the duty youd like is stay in the business longer. Theres no huge skill set that youre dreaming of that makes a big difference duty vs duty, maybe some exceptional cases, but in the most part it doesn't exist where you need a defined skill set.

[world class male]

seniority is already getting phased out, more often than not is now any duties that becomes available they're part time even if it was full before,
the only full time jobs these days are cover or reserves
we may be having a re-pick sometime this year and they want mostly ft/pt combos so a lot of the duties at the start could be unavailable if the other half has already gone