Update from Terry Pullinger

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 09 Jan 2018, 20:47

Just a quick update from Terry pullinger and the negotiating team. Negotiations are still draft format but the following was reported and we were confident we are working towards a final agreement within weeks.
Pensions is a nailed on agreement one scheme with the same position of securing legislation change and we continue to fight for RoMEC members inclusion. Pay. We have a two year deal. No lump sums a pure % rise. The detail of this is still in development but a one hour Sww will be included in year two. We would consider three year deal if put on table.
Pensions is a nailed on agreement one scheme with the same position of securing legislation change and we continue to fight for RoMEC members inclusion. Pay. We have a two year deal. No lump sums a pure % rise. The detail of this is still in development but a one hour Sww will be included in year two. We would consider three year deal if put on table.

On the shorter working week we are aiming to nail down a flight path to 35 hours with a definitive time scale. Both parties are in agreement to this. Need to consider impact on network / logistics and buy out one option.
On the pipeline we remain confident the majority of people in delivery will keep existing finish times. Management have stepped back from blanket 5pm finish. We can extend the last acceptance letter time and deal with minimal impact on a very limited amount of duties. All air services will continue to fly and we are looking to grow the business. A budget to help grow services is also being set up.

On extending the legally binding agreement this is proving to be toughest challenge but confident we will get over the line. All aspects will flow thru to parcelforce too National briefings will be set up if we get to a point where recommendation to accept comes forward
The IR structure would remain in place as a three tiers but more done to try to secure agreement at the lowest level and accept that RM need to address their managerial behaviours. Tony Fox has already been replaced by Ricky McAulay we have been informed today.
There was acknowledgement that work needed to be done on culture change and would need to see improved resourcing and recruitment model going forward, this will be key to any final agreement and the negotiators have strong reason to believe this will happen
This report remains positive but unless everything is agreed then technically nothing is agreed. A further report on pensions will follow Thursday

TheTrolleyMan · Post by **TheTrolleyMan** » 09 Jan 2018, 20:53

18 months and that's it ?

Post by **General Mannerheim** » 09 Jan 2018, 20:54

There was acknowledgement that work needed to be done on culture change and would need to see improved resourcing and recruitment model going forward, this will be key to any final agreement and the negotiators have strong reason to believe this will happen

Really when the attendance and conduct agreement is openly flouted do they think that?

worktotime · Post by **worktotime** » 09 Jan 2018, 21:18

General Mannerheim wrote:
There was acknowledgement that work needed to be done on culture change and would need to see improved resourcing and recruitment model going forward, this will be key to any final agreement and the negotiators have strong reason to believe this will happen
Really when the attendance and conduct agreement is openly flouted do they think that?

to right , that's why our dim said today theres to many f/ters so any dutys that go on the board ( staff gone ) will be made p/t , lol , but yet hes throwing o/t about like grass seed , change I'm guessing NOT.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 10 Jan 2018, 06:51

dingo wrote:On the shorter working week we are aiming to nail down a flight path to 35 hours with a definitive time scale. Both parties are in agreement to this. Need to consider impact on network / logistics and buy out one option.

They'll need to put hours in for that to have a hope in hell of working. With the current staffing (probably true for most offices), a 35hr week would just result in all shifts failing all the time. All shifts struggle to clear as it is and there's loads of casuals (think some days we might well be outnumbered by casuals)

LouBarlow · Post by **LouBarlow** » 10 Jan 2018, 07:52

I'll be voting NO on any agreement that relies on future legislation to secure my pension. What a crock of shite.

beerhamilton · Post by **beerhamilton** » 10 Jan 2018, 14:32

Lots of negativity around the whole four pillars campaign, 18 mouths is a long time for negotiations but this is not all the CWUs fault most of that time is due to the business not being willing to get around the table.

We have to realise our union are no longer dealing with a publicly owned company, this is a private company run buy shareholders who want mass return on their investments.

My biggest thought on this campaign and what the business wanted to do and where it wants to go is, thank god we have the CWU Union looking after our pay, pensions, terms and conditions and pipeline of the business.

Frustrating as it is I think we are in good safe hands, we have what we have now because of our union without them god knows where we would be.

Post by **stephen500** » 10 Jan 2018, 14:50

"unless everything is agreed then technically nothing is agreed" We follow the Brexit mantra and see where that has got us so far. As for legal agreement, what is the point of that? The only party that ever goes to court is Royal Mail. Time we go to ballot it looks like cash in our hands around mid Feb.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 10 Jan 2018, 15:26

Pensions is a nailed on agreement one scheme with the same position of securing legislation change and we continue to fight for RoMEC members inclusion.

What's nailed on about it?
That it will be one pension for all?

That nicely ticks the union's box but what does it mean in cold hard cash?
How can we agree a pension solution when we're not going to know how big a hit DB members are going to take compared to their existing pension to ensure there's "one pension for all"? The only thing that's sure is that existing DB members will have less to retire on than they had planned for. This pension "solution" stinks of sacrificing one section of the membership for another. Bear in mind every employee decided to take the job based on the terms and conditions offered to them at their starting date.

What is Royal Mail's minimum guaranteed return? No ifs and buts and maybe if the scheme performs well. What's the figure we can rely on, the only one we can plan our retirement around?

Post by **RobertT** » 10 Jan 2018, 16:43

As there are no other CDC pension schemes in operation in the UK and as the proposed RM scheme is dependent on legislation being introduced, at the moment we can only really go by the theory of how these schemes are supposed to work.
Every article I’ve read on the subject would suggest there is no minimum guaranteed return, just a target amount that may or may not be achieved. Although I think Dingo did say that it would have a guaranteed figure, which I can only assume would be a bare minimum based on modest returns.

In the interim, RM’s latest firm proposal of a Cash Balance scheme would be introduced, presumably also with a DC option as previously stated here? In my personal opinion legislation will will be slow in coming and we’ll be stuck with this ‘transitional’ scheme for longer than the CWU are letting on!

I assume we will be told the contribution levels along with all the other details concerning pay, the pipeline, etc.

Chitchat · Post by **Chitchat** » 10 Jan 2018, 16:57

I assume the fact the pensions hasn't been dealt with, is the reason why we effectively have a one year deal. Come april 2019 if no progress has been made on changing legislation we will have to start all over again.

Post by **Lincox** » 10 Jan 2018, 18:07

Dingo, You state that Royal Mail need to accept their managerial behaviours. This is just not good enough, just like it has not been good enough in the last agreement.
There has to be cast iron terms of reference written in to this agreement that Managers have written in to their contract of employment, and rules and regulations posted on all noticeboards stating agreed procedures on working to finish time. (Fish is right, the current arrangement is unworkable).

Chitchat · Post by **Chitchat** » 10 Jan 2018, 19:36

fishtank wrote:
Pensions is a nailed on agreement one scheme with the same position of securing legislation change and we continue to fight for RoMEC members inclusion.
What's nailed on about it?
That it will be one pension for all?

That nicely ticks the union's box but what does it mean in cold hard cash?
How can we agree a pension solution when we're not going to know how big a hit DB members are going to take compared to their existing pension to ensure there's "one pension for all"? The only thing that's sure is that existing DB members will have less to retire on than they had planned for. This pension "solution" stinks of sacrificing one section of the membership for another. Bear in mind every employee decided to take the job based on the terms and conditions offered to them at their starting date.

What is Royal Mail's minimum guaranteed return? No ifs and buts and maybe if the scheme performs well. What's the figure we can rely on, the only one we can plan our retirement around?

You talk alot of sense, while it would be nice that everyone be in one scheme, i for one cant afford to have my pension reduced futher so the union can have their one pension for all.

mark02 · Post by **mark02** » 10 Jan 2018, 20:24

dingo wrote:Just a quick update from Terry pullinger and the negotiating team. Negotiations are still draft format but the following was reported and we were confident we are working towards a final agreement within weeks.
Pensions is a nailed on agreement one scheme with the same position of securing legislation change and we continue to fight for RoMEC members inclusion. Pay. We have a two year deal. No lump sums a pure % rise. The detail of this is still in development but a one hour Sww will be includeis pay backdated?d in year two. We would consider three year deal if put on table.
Pensions is a nailed on agreement one scheme with the same position of securing legislation change and we continue to fight for RoMEC members inclusion. Pay. We have a two year deal. No lump sums a pure % rise. The detail of this is still in development but a one hour Sww will be included in year two. We would consider three year deal if put on table.

On the shorter working week we are aiming to nail down a flight path to 35 hours with a definitive time scale. Both parties are in agreement to this. Need to consider impact on network / logistics and buy out one option.
On the pipeline we remain confident the majority of people in delivery will keep existing finish times. Management have
stepped back from blanket 5pm finish. We can extend the last acceptance letter time and deal with minimal impact on a very limited amount of duties. All air services will continue to fly and we are looking to grow the business. A budget to help grow services is also being set up.

On extending the legally binding agreement this is proving to be toughest challenge but confident we will get over the line. All aspects will flow thru to parcelforce too National briefings will be set up if we get to a point where recommendation to accept comes forward
The IR structure would remain in place as a three tiers but more done to try to secure agreement at the lowest level and accept that RM need to address their managerial behaviours. Tony Fox has already been replaced by Ricky McAulay we have been informed today.
There was acknowledgement that work needed to be done on culture change and would need to see improved resourcing and recruitment model going forward, this will be key to any final agreement and the negotiators have strong reason to believe this will happen
This report remains positive but unless everything is agreed then technically nothing is agreed. A further report on pensions will follow Thursday

Post by **aiden01** » 10 Jan 2018, 20:36

stephen500 wrote:"unless everything is agreed then technically nothing is agreed" We follow the Brexit mantra and see where that has got us so far. As for legal agreement, what is the point of that? The only party that ever goes to court is Royal Mail. Time we go to ballot it looks like cash in our hands around mid Feb.

Your optimistic dont think we will even have ballot paper by mid feb.