Talks Resume

hans solo · Post by **hans solo** » 04 Jan 2018, 13:02

dingo wrote:I disagree we did not go for no later starts we went that we did not want a 9-5 job or much later finishes with our members working in the dark.

Remember within any deal we will have a shorter working week which will for the first hour mean delivery staff starting 30 mins later on Monday and Tuesday or possibly 12 minutes later on each of your five days.

If we get a second hour off the working week it mean starting later again.

Whilst progress has been made on all the issues , there is still a lot of detail needed to be worked up and some principles established.

The CWU warned Royal Mail before Christmas If your just waiting to Christmas to be over than we will announcing strike action at the PEC meeting next Tuesday 9th.

Royal Mail said this was not the case as they need industrial stability to win new orders and keep the current contracts. When the CWU announce strike action a number of companies moved suppliers and some have come back and some are waiting . This is why Royal Mail want and need an agreement.

The talks which are happening this week are designed to now move the issues into a form of an agreement as there are not just one set of discussions going on , as there are at times seperate meetings on the pipeline , meetings on Pensions , Pay and SWW and meetings on the deployment of the Agreement Plan .

Why has it taken so long ? If you annayalise every single Mail Centre arrival profile for each post code Area , when it can be processed and how much , it’s arrival time into either MPU or DO and than the automiss of the CSS machine and what time that Work gets into each Delivery Office than it takes some time.

Additionally what time each Mail Centre will get the Later acceptance parcels in and what can connect with normal delivery times and what can’t.

This is the level of detail just on the pipeline which has to be anaylised and tested if there is going to be any agreement.

There is a Joint PEC / Divisional Reps meeting next Tuesday and we will see whether we have an agreement , are close and just need more time or if there are issues which are still not agreed and may need Industrial action to be unlocked.

with slightly later starts ie, 30mins or later means for some 2.30 finishers just now extending to complete 5 pm not far away and with all the b&h that goes on the will get their wishes .we should not be compromising our finish times at any cost

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 04 Jan 2018, 16:17

Space your missing the fact that most Mail Centres will be able to have most of the RDCs which are scheduled to have LATs contect with normal services.

However they may be one or two which don’t and these will not be scheduled for normal deliveries routes as the numbers will not be sufficient enough to warrant holding back normal deliveries. Instead these may be delivered by drivers from either the Mail Centre or Collection Hub in a similar way as the M25 Sunday Parcels are delivered from the Mount for the whole of London.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 04 Jan 2018, 16:40

dingo wrote:Space your missing the fact that most Mail Centres will be able to have most of the RDCs which are scheduled to have LATs contect with normal services.

If too much arrives later it'll possibly still fail as there won't be the time to process it

dingo wrote:However they may be one or two which don’t and these will not be scheduled for normal deliveries routes as the numbers will not be sufficient enough to warrant holding back normal deliveries. Instead these may be delivered by drivers from either the Mail Centre or Collection Hub in a similar way as the M25 Sunday Parcels are delivered from the Mount for the whole of London.

It'll be DO staff delivering them, MCs are short on drivers as it is

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 04 Jan 2018, 17:51

No if it is parcels , the amount is easy to connect. It is being assessed and work up from Each RDC and worked up by Network to each Mail Centre.

With Hub Optimisation , COLOD 2 and 3 as well as the business policy of removing so many relief collections between 12-15:00 Mail Centre Collection drivers may be happy to have some additional work. There has been shortage in delivery drivers for years but more drive in Delivery now under CDV than ever before.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 04 Jan 2018, 18:14

dingo wrote:No if it is parcels , the amount is easy to connect.

Dream on, if they come in any later then they'll fail. It goes right to the wire as it is, and that's without anything coming in late

TheTrolleyMan · Post by **TheTrolleyMan** » 04 Jan 2018, 18:21

Jambomatt1874 wrote:The last update suggests that we’re going to get the usual from the union, we’ve got you a great deal, the best we’ll get! We’ve went from no later start to we have to move with the times on pullingers last video. Same old union no bottle and being used as puppets!

Well said at last the truth

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 04 Jan 2018, 18:57

TheTrolleyMan wrote:
Jambomatt1874 wrote:The last update suggests that we’re going to get the usual from the union, we’ve got you a great deal, the best we’ll get! We’ve went from no later start to we have to move with the times on pullingers last video. Same old union no bottle and being used as puppets!
Well said at last the truth

Trouble is for DOs, once MCs and RDCs start an hour later, chances are that the stuff will get sent out to DOs an hour later and then DOs won't have a choice about later starts

Phantom · Post by **Phantom** » 04 Jan 2018, 19:02

@Dingo, what is the projected extra workload for delivery offices if LAT go ahead? if it's a significant increase in packets/parcels then we are going to have serious daily issues, even worse than what we are having now.

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 04 Jan 2018, 19:12

The CWU has compromised on all of Royal Mail's objectives. So we have moved from a 5pm to a 3.30pm finish - well why can't we just leave it as it is now? Why can't we all just stand up and say that we don't want to change our attendance times just because the Royal Mail dictate that we should?? Our attendance times have already changed in the past from starting later for SDD and then we come in later Monday and Tuesday - for their benefit, and now bank holiday week, oh a Tuesday suddenly becomes a Monday working day and we are expected to start earlier and finish later. Why can't we just say NO to later finishing times but feel free to change our start times - with no loss in pay.

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 04 Jan 2018, 19:15

Phantom the numbers if realised are worth many millions but in the scheme of things it won’t Average more than one or two per walk per day. Obviously the fall to earth will vary office by office.

Later Acceptance is growing but most parcels will still come through the normal network. Whereas the LAT will come from around 6 RDC entry points around the UK.

Ozzvaldo · Post by **Ozzvaldo** » 04 Jan 2018, 19:16

Many shared vans were finishing between 4pm and 4.30pm in my office today (3pm official finish time)....and they were trying to insist on us lapsing due to staff shortages rather than mail volumes, which were quite obviously far to high.

All this talk of starting an hour later on a Monday or 12 minutes later each day is laughable when it comes to offices like mine (and I know it's not universally the case) which still delivers ever-increasing numbers of Amazon parcels for the whole year, not just Christmas, serves a fairly isolated area with poor shopping facilities, hence large numbers of all sizes of packets/parcels, and has a duty structure that is totally unrealistic and unachievable presided over by bullying managers who routinely question our competence and label us as lazy.

Binsey · Post by **Binsey** » 04 Jan 2018, 19:38

SpacePhoenix wrote:
dingo wrote:No if it is parcels , the amount is easy to connect.
Dream on, if they come in any later then they'll fail. It goes right to the wire as it is, and that's without anything coming in late

No look at the recent docking trail. There not even coming into MCs. Basically there already York sorted for the DO so off one lorry onto another cutting the MC out.
As time progresses I would expect this to become the norm with the big posters.

Phantom · Post by **Phantom** » 04 Jan 2018, 19:52

dingo wrote:Phantom the numbers if realised are worth many millions but in the scheme of things it won’t Average more than one or two per walk per day. Obviously the fall to earth will vary office by office.

Later Acceptance is growing but most parcels will still come through the normal network. Whereas the LAT will come from around 6 RDC entry points around the UK.

So finishing later just to take one or two extra packets a day - I think it will be greater than that otherwise whats the point.

Our finishing times should remain the same, RM have played the same old trick of asking for more than they need and getting a increase in finish times - Union will say we got you 3:30pm instead of 5pm. Not good enough in my book.

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 04 Jan 2018, 20:54

Phantom the later acceptance parcels is not necessary the reason for the later finish. Royal Mail want to maximise work on a first wave .

This will allow them to cancel some of the flights which will save them over a million for each flight cancelled.

The maximisation Of first wave for every batch of walks etc is being reviewed to see when is the optimum time to start walk sorting and of course the more Mail you run on the first wave than the longer each plan will take hence why they wanted peter finishes.

They did not just want 17:00 they wanted everyone to finish at 5 , than they moved to 16:00 and now a range between 2:30 and 3:30 with no office moving more than 30 mins maximum.

I think you need to wait to see the whole agreement if there is one before you or anyone makes a judgement and obviously if there is the members will have the final say.

Dexydog · Post by **Dexydog** » 04 Jan 2018, 21:08

We just "agreed" to finish later in return for keeping our 1 in 4's and the promise of not taking duties out and job cuts.
When I say agreed, the vote was taken by a show of hands and it was my day off so didn't get to vote.
I am absolutely bloody furious and am coming out of the union as a result.
This is in an office where most duties are unachievable and part-timers dig them out of the s**t every day.
Can anyone explain what motives a local rep might have when agreeing a later finish, without giving every member a vote, when it has not been agreed nationally yet?!!!