A National Update

[clashcityrocker]

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And why not when they can agree to knock a full hour off our working week which saves RM £100 million??

How does it save RM that much money? Any money?

I don't know I'm constantly baffled by Royal Mail's figures meself. Apparently that figure is based on no absorption as well. The worrying thing about Royal Mail reading the mediators report is that they want resourcing to workload i.e. taking walks out on light days, fair workloads etc etc but if its based on their traffic figures then we are all screwed.

Knocking 1 hour off the working week is the equivalent of a 2.56% pay rise. It doesn't save RM money.
I don't know where you work but most areas have had resourcing to workload for years.

[Stunners]

What's difficult about understanding that a 35 hour week is a good thing & well worth the union fighting for on our behalf.
It gives part timers a good pay rise & more chance of being made up to full time (if they have the sense not to do it for free)
Protects the ft jobs already got & increases overtime opportunities on a greatly increased hourly rate.

In dingo's words...'Longer and longer deliveries to compensate'!! I'm shattered now doing the delivery that I do and to be honest at least starting off with doing some indoor work provides a little bit of respite when you know that you're going to be pounding the streets day after day in all weathers. Imagine doing a 7 hour delivery outdoor span over 5 days - because that is what the Union seems to be advocating.

I guess some common sense needs to be applied over breaking the working day up with breaks and stuff but as always there will always be staff finding ways round the system. Automated hours data capture - what's it for exactly? To figure out that some posties are faster than others on delivery??

Let's say the fairies do all the indoor work on a 7 hour day.
20 mins to load van & do checks
15 min conveyance out 15 min coming back
10 min to pouch off. We now down to 6 hours.
Then guess what 30 min meal relief & it's 5 hours 30 min
On a 35 hour week you would be looking at a 5 hour span absolute tops even with all singing dancing sorting machines
That's why we need a 35 hour week to stop the nightmare scenario of outdoor work your afraid of

Very thing is that is just what we need a 35 hour week for all the above reasons but even so driving a van for hour's on end without a break for meals or facility's for toilets and the physical strain on the body is not something we should willingly jump in the air for a 2.6% pay rise and a fraction off the working week. All told we need a new method of delivery and that is the old two delivery span of return to office have a meal relief and go out and return to office and finish!

Bang on the money you just saved me posting the exact same thing

[chrisj]

So we knock an hour a week off but a large number of posties are already giving more than 1 hour a week for free - willing make a difference the actual hours worked for a lot of people???

That 1 hour could be easily swallowed by more d2ds - all RM has to is make them even cheaper that we start delivering all sorts of d2ds including local chippies and handyman's...

No absorption is not a reality without a massive overhaul and redesign of walks in almost every office. Traffic is also unpredictable and very different for different walks...

Lastly, are we going to get clocking in and out machines and constant testing of walks to make sure there is a fair workload for all?

This is just window dressing - it is as you were but with more expectations for flexibility in many other ways.

[postslippete]

So we knock an hour a week off but a large number of posties are already giving more than 1 hour a week for free - willing make a difference the actual hours worked for a lot of people???

That 1 hour could be easily swallowed by more d2ds - all RM has to is make them even cheaper that we start delivering all sorts of d2ds including local chippies and handyman's...

No absorption is not a reality without a massive overhaul and redesign of walks in almost every office. Traffic is also unpredictable and very different for different walks...

Lastly, are we going to get clocking in and out machines and constant testing of walks to make sure there is a fair workload for all?

This is just window dressing - it is as you were but with more expectations for flexibility in many other ways.

I think you answered the reply I was going to post. Its all a bit too obvious to me but delivering bigger duties will just pose bigger problems in future.

[k979aaa]

When the introduction of time capture take's place why would anyone do the job for free but we have a start time and a finish time!

[monkey76]

What's difficult about understanding that a 35 hour week is a good thing & well worth the union fighting for on our behalf.
It gives part timers a good pay rise & more chance of being made up to full time (if they have the sense not to do it for free)
Protects the ft jobs already got & increases overtime opportunities on a greatly increased hourly rate.

That can only result in stuff arriving at DOs later. Generally all shifts in MCs are right to the wire as it is and that's before you think about taking out an hour a day!

Agreed, I don’t see this fitting into mailcentres at all. We are right on the wire if not snapping it some days with the dispatches. I think the union should seperate Mail centres from the shorter working week.

[Martin Walsh]

A few of you are looking at this from a Mail Centre based on what currently happens in a Mail Centre and not what Royal Mail future design is.

For example nights do the inward , lates up to 22:00 dispatch do the outward and earlies do either 2c or DSA dependent on arrivals.

Royal Mail want a longer processing window and want to change the traditional early , lates and night shifts which a Mail Centre have.

For example if Deliveries move to a range of 14:30 to 15:30 this basically means that if a Delivery is currently finishing at 14:00 they would move to 14:30 , if they are currently finishing at 1430 to 15:00 they would move to 15:00 and if they are finishing at 15:00 they would move to 15:30.

By moving later this would mean they would start later so for example if you are currently finishing at 14:30 you would move to 15:00 and that means if you start 30 mins later and If you were on a 5 day week you would have 12 mins of the working so you would start 48 minutes later.

As a result of this a number of flight could be cancelled meaning this work would transfer onto road and hence arrive later than current.

Royal Mail want to move the final dispatch later as it is always the pinch point for a Mail Centre.

Royal Mail want both Network 17 & 18 introduced as early as February as part any Agreement.

Royal Mail want Hub optimisation which does under the roof activity and hold second class for the Mail Centre.

Currently Royal Mail are modelling each Mail Centre on the basis of how much work is available at mid night to sequence and for example the Mount has 90% of all inward available but does two waves based on 65 % first wave and 35% second wave.

Royal Mail’s plan is to do all that 90% on the first wave and the second 10% as just walk sorted and this is why they want to find a different way of Delivery offices sorting ie removing frames.

On top of this Royal Mail want to cease Sunday night MPU operations and transfer to Mail Centres and want to review MPUs to see if any can be closed and for Mail Centres to work on. Auto miss records downtime’s on machines etc.

Additionally Mail Centre will have to have a plan for late acceptance from RDCs across the UK as the RDCs will have a mid night or 01:00 hour later acceptance plan.

Additionally Royal Mail believe there is to much of range of Mail Centre performances and want to increase each of the Mail Centres WIPGH efferiency

So whilst a lot of talk has been on the impact of Mail Centres Workers there is going to be huge change in Mail Centres and to many are looking at what is happening now rather than what the plan is .

[SpacePhoenix]

Royal Mail’s plan is to do all that 90% on the first wave and the second 10% as just walk sorted and this is why they want to find a different way of Delivery offices sorting ie removing frames.

Unless you have a ridiculously light day, 90% in one hit is physically impossible. If they want wave 1 run just once then they'll have to get used to a greater amount of stuff going to wave 2.

[monkey76]

A few of you are looking at this from a Mail Centre based on what currently happens in a Mail Centre and not what Royal Mail future design is.

For example nights do the inward , lates up to 22:00 dispatch do the outward and earlies do either 2c or DSA dependent on arrivals.

Royal Mail want a longer processing window and want to change the traditional early , lates and night shifts which a Mail Centre have.

For example if Deliveries move to a range of 14:30 to 15:30 this basically means that if a Delivery is currently finishing at 14:00 they would move to 14:30 , if they are currently finishing at 1430 to 15:00 they would move to 15:00 and if they are finishing at 15:00 they would move to 15:30.

By moving later this would mean they would start later so for example if you are currently finishing at 14:30 you would move to 15:00 and that means if you start 30 mins later and If you were on a 5 day week you would have 12 mins of the working so you would start 48 minutes later.

As a result of this a number of flight could be cancelled meaning this work would transfer onto road and hence arrive later than current.

Royal Mail want to move the final dispatch later as it is always the pinch point for a Mail Centre.

Royal Mail want both Network 17 & 18 introduced as early as February as part any Agreement.

Royal Mail want Hub optimisation which does under the roof activity and hold second class for the Mail Centre.

Currently Royal Mail are modelling each Mail Centre on the basis of how much work is available at mid night to sequence and for example the Mount has 90% of all inward available but does two waves based on 65 % first wave and 35% second wave.

Royal Mail’s plan is to do all that 90% on the first wave and the second 10% as just walk sorted and this is why they want to find a different way of Delivery offices sorting ie removing frames.

On top of this Royal Mail want to cease Sunday night MPU operations and transfer to Mail Centres and want to review MPUs to see if any can be closed and for Mail Centres to work on. Auto miss records downtime’s on machines etc.

Additionally Mail Centre will have to have a plan for late acceptance from RDCs across the UK as the RDCs will have a mid night or 01:00 hour later acceptance plan.

Additionally Royal Mail believe there is to much of range of Mail Centre performances and want to increase each of the Mail Centres WIPGH efferiency

So whilst a lot of talk has been on the impact of Mail Centres Workers there is going to be huge change in Mail Centres and to many are looking at what is happening now rather than what the plan is .

What happens now is on a Monday you have 6 hrs 50 mins of processing after breaks and TBO are taken out of the shift, tues to fri you add SWW so you have 6 hrs and 35 minutes to process mail for dispatch to DO’s. We struggle regulary to hit final dispatch to DO (on nights) in our mailcentre. Where ever you move start finish times to you have that amount of time to clear, to reduce this time further in mailcentres, in my opinion only, will make it very very hard to achieve clearence, even harder than it is now.

[SpacePhoenix]

Final dispatches on night shifts in MCs can't be moved any later as early shifts need to have to the time to process the 2C mail for the iirc 10am dispatch

[monkey76]

Final dispatches on night shifts in MCs can't be moved any later as early shifts need to have to the time to process the 2C mail for the iirc 10am dispatch

I don’t think they’re overly keen on the early shift in our unit they try and do their work on other shifts.

[Danelectro]

By moving later this would mean they would start later so for example if you are currently finishing at 14:30 you would move to 15:00 and that means if you start 30 mins later and If you were on a 5 day week you would have 12 mins of the working so you would start 48 minutes later.

As a result of this a number of flight could be cancelled meaning this work would transfer onto road and hence arrive later than current.

Royal Mail want to move the final dispatch later as it is always the pinch point for a Mail Centre.

Royal Mail want both Network 17 & 18 introduced as early as February etc etc etc .

Hell of a lot of ' Royal Mail want' considering they are quaking in their boots due to the ',fantastic ballot result'.WTF do we want? and where are Pullingers red lines considering small frames and walk ownership arent red lines in DOs and now later acceptance times aren't at Mail Centres and what happens if Royal Mail 'want' something different in the New Year.

Without knowing our red lines then how can members judge what they are 'moving' on or not (yes 17.00 last letter) and if any new methods of working are under pinned by a legally binding agreement that puts a brick wall of a months mediation before any local or national IA then some haven't learned any lessons.

The successful 4Pillars campaign was driven by unfair workloads which are being created in DOs by using the agreed tools.The words covering the agreed tools need a comprehensive rewrite if members are to be protected.Medical expertise needs to be applied to any increase in delivery spans.Extending existing agreements doesn't cut the mustard.The last agreement promised to solve this and didn't and allowing your average DOM data càpture information will be like Donald Trump grabbing pussy.

[Martin Walsh]

Of course there are a number of what Royal Mail want but that does not mean they will get.

1. Walk ownership is a red line issue hence why we won’t agree it.

2. The switching on of the indoor sensor which identifies where you are in a Mail Centre , RDC , Collection Hub or Delivery Office is a red line issue so Royal Mail have Agreed Automated Hours Data Capture for signing in and out recording and that is what any trial will scope.

3. Outdoor merging of 3 bundles or the use of the baby grow for merging outside is no no. However there is some logic that If 900 letters of your Thousand letters come in sequenced in boxes does it make any sense to than throw that work back into a frame ? This is where there might be different indoor methods deployed and that is what is being discussed. The mediators report gives her view on this subject .

4. 17:00 , 16:00 and every one finishing at 15:30 are all red line issues. The CWU have not agreed 15:30 but want to asses how early work can come into offices based on maximising wave 1 and how much work if any is linked to the later acceptance from RDCs. At the moment BT2010 states that the most staff should finish delivery at 14:00 , the vast majority by 14:30 and the last letter is 3. That is the same principle will be agreed in any final agreement so a range of finishing times will be there. However the union has already secured a hour off the working week but is looking for more based on this.

5. Getting a better review process for part timers to increase their contracted hours is a red line. However part timers need to understand there is a difference working above your contracted hours covering absence overtime than a part timers whose own duty cannot be completed within their contract contracted hours and therefore means their contract hours should be increased or the most senior part timer in the unit.

6. Resolving Resourcing issues and the bullying culture which exists in certain Delivery Offices often as a result of managing by budget is a red line issue.

Obviously Pensions , Pay , The Shorter working week , and the extension of legal guarantees are all red line issues.

Royal Mail want a deal and have made significant concesssions but there is no such thing as a totally one sided agreement or there is not an agreement.

More talks this week so let’s hope we can get a good agreement but as there has always been there will be changed it is how we shape that change which is the key issue and ensure that the members get the final say on any agreement

[monkey76]

More talks this week so let’s hope we can get a good agreement but as there has always been there will be changed it is how we shape that change which is the key issue and ensure that the members get the final say on any agreement[/quote]
When are the meeting again? What days?

[SpacePhoenix]

4. 17:00 , 16:00 and every one finishing at 15:30 are all red line issues. The CWU have not agreed 15:30 but want to asses how early work can come into offices based on maximising wave 1 and how much work if any is linked to the later acceptance from RDCs. At the moment BT2010 states that the most staff should finish delivery at 14:00 , the vast majority by 14:30 and the last letter is 3. That is the same principle will be agreed in any final agreement so a range of finishing times will be there. However the union has already secured a hour off the working week but is looking for more based on this.

Does the union want the 35 hour week or DOs to finish earlier? They can't have both. If the 35 hour week comes in, then it's bound to be Tues-Fri shifts starting an hour later, so the work will get processed an hour later and leave an hour later. I've probably got more chance of winning the Euro lottery then DOs have got of not being a 15:30 finish or later.