COMPARING 9/9/07 DOC TO NOW!!

[lovejoy]

Not surprised you are confused LJ just paraphrasing your post, had the same effect on me.

doesn't surprise me - after all it doesn't contain any swear words

Whats your problem Love joy ? No swear words,sorry don't rely on expletives,please don't try to portray me as some half witted simian. Isimply do not agree with your desperate call for a yes vote.

I would like , if you can manage it , to keep this debate free from personal invective, this issue is to important to be subsumed with petty bickering. Your choice ,but we both know how it reads.

I vote NO . You vote yes , for what benefits?

SEEn that s**t before still s**t

You mealy mouthed weasel worded backstabing turncoat, piss off Hayes you f***ing career politician you gotta do better than that.

Do a week at my DO you portly twat ,youd be dead by WEdnesday

JUST A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES OF THE SAME BELIAL WHO DOES NOT USE EXPLETIVES????

PUT THESE WORDS TOGETHER AND FORM A SENTENCE MATE.....BLACK, KETTLE, POT, THE, CALLING

[Herodotus]

I see .. that once more .. I have missed 'all the fun'!

Thanks for the comparison chart .. Lovejoy .. that is exactly what I wanted. I know that all the info was contained in the 'Agreement' .. the 'Briefing Report' etc .. but that short sharp page gives me a short-cut methos of keeping my members informed as to what exactly .. was achieved by our strike action. I have told you of my own personal feelings .. but nevertheless .. you continue to help Reps like me .. who wish to plan a long-term strategy .. using the only weapons at our disposal. I shall never stop fighting the Royal Mail .. but battles can be fought easier using well thought out tactics. At the risk of getting .. a tin of clotted cream .. aimed at my head .. could I point out .. that it is 'Sentence' .. OK .. I'm running....................................

[dvbuk55]

I see .. that once more .. I have missed 'all the fun'!

Thanks for the comparison chart .. Lovejoy .. that is exactly what I wanted. I know that all the info was contained in the 'Agreement' .. the 'Briefing Report' etc .. but that short sharp page gives me a short-cut methos of keeping my members informed as to what exactly .. was achieved by our strike action. I have told you of my own personal feelings .. but nevertheless .. you continue to help Reps like me .. who wish to plan a long-term strategy .. using the only weapons at our disposal. I shall never stop fighting the Royal Mail .. but battles can be fought easier using well thought out tactics. At the risk of getting .. a tin of clotted cream .. aimed at my head .. could I point out .. that it is 'Sentence' .. OK .. I'm running....................................

If I was you I wouldn't take the comparison at face value. As far as it goes it's OK BUT it is much ado about nothing. The difference between the original deal and the agreed deal is small. It does not address many of the issues but puts them off to a "later" date. The pension, which was supposedly decoupled from the original agreement has in fact been rubber stamped by the executive. In no manner, shape or form can this be described as a victory.

In truth it has been a very poor performance by the leadership which leaves as many questions still unanswered as have been partially agreed.. It has been suggested that criticism of the deal should be accompanied by a strategy, which begs the question, what do we pay these people for, self service and political posturing? If that is the case then our futures are far too high a price to pay.

[pcb]

Lovejoy I appreciate the posts and I understand your point of view, I would also defend your right to put it across. Problem is it sounds a bit like a personal election push, I wonder what is coming up in the near future?
You are right in saying that the deal being decoupled from the pensions and the D2D gives the PEC a chance of getting this past the members, but we will still have to fight in the future. RM have shown that they are after our pensions, now are we willing to fight now when we still have xmas in front of us or do we wait and try to get a deal in the new year. I believe we can get a deal on the pensions by using this present battle. Everyone has gone through changes over the last 7 years since the WFA, but no recognition from RM, what does that tell you.

[L Tommo]

As you made the Comment "I WILL DELIVER IF THERE IS A NO VOTE." Q....

Now this still interests me.... So You say you can deliver?? And now i bring you to task you turn the words to mean YOU WILL DELIVER FOR THE UNION....... Totally different from what you first wrote and the contex it was taken.... IF you put words in like that it is a normal reaction of somebody who is against. DELIVERING WHEN A STRIKE IS ON ,, AND after a NO VOTE..... HENCE what i first called you....


Now i see you calling me names with no other reason than you feel threatened.... I said my words with meaning and ive justifed them and the misunderstanding.... Now you carry on this by calling me A GOBSHITE.... AND making out IM the kind of person that people with a open wavering view of the vote will vote YES... Because of ME....???? BOLLOX you self opinionated arse..... You sound like a good candidate for The next PEC member.. selling us down the river and back stabbing and twisting any comments made when YOU made the first comment that was MISUNDERSTOOD... U couldnt leave it there... You had to come back and call me Silly names where you feel Bullying is going on as its a KEY WORD. of the minute... U sound like RM and there stance on H&B,, And the way they have a two tier system in implimenting it as well... DO AS I SAY AND NOT WHAT I DO..... Rings any bells with you lovejoy>????

Ive stood up and said it was a misunderstanding more times than enough.. But YOU seem to want a carry on....?

I think at this time of hi feelings and everybody is a little crazy i take it with a pinch of salt....

As no doubt your have to come back with some lame argument now....?

Hope not but you points of view are welcome if you keep them non personal....


out...

[lovejoy]

[quote="L Tommo"]As you made the Comment "I WILL DELIVER IF THERE IS A NO VOTE." Q....

Now this still interests me.... So You say you can deliver?? And now i bring you to task you turn the words to mean YOU WILL DELIVER FOR THE UNION....... Totally different from what you first wrote and the contex it was taken.... IF you put words in like that it is a normal reaction of somebody who is against. DELIVERING WHEN A STRIKE IS ON ,, AND after a NO VOTE..... HENCE what i first called you....


Now i see you calling me names with no other reason than you feel threatened.... I said my words with meaning and ive justifed them and the misunderstanding.... Now you carry on this by calling me A GOBSHITE.... AND making out IM the kind of person that people with a open wavering view of the vote will vote YES... Because of ME....???? BOLLOX you self opinionated arse..... You sound like a good candidate for The next PEC member.. selling us down the river and back stabbing and twisting any comments made when YOU made the first comment that was MISUNDERSTOOD... U couldnt leave it there... You had to come back and call me Silly names where you feel Bullying is going on as its a KEY WORD. of the minute... U sound like RM and there stance on H&B,, And the way they have a two tier system in implimenting it as well... DO AS I SAY AND NOT WHAT I DO..... Rings any bells with you lovejoy>????

Ive stood up and said it was a misunderstanding more times than enough.. But YOU seem to want a carry on....?

I think at this time of hi feelings and everybody is a little crazy i take it with a pinch of salt....

As no doubt your have to come back with some lame argument now....?

Hope not but you points of view are welcome if you keep them non personal....#




out...

I understand feelings are running high but in any context to be labelled a scab is hurtful

I don't need to come back with any lame my friend. On any issue and at any time i would be happy to have an adult debate with you. BULLY? i'm not the one who gets on his high horse everytime somebody says something you don't like!

If you don't like my views and can't handle a 2 way debate then don't get involved

[Herodotus]

dvbuk55 .. thanks for your concern & input. My own branch officers are lazy & ineffectual .. I have leaned heavily upon especially 'Lovejoy' & others on here to get my Unit & the Units of Brother Reps .. informed as to what has been going on! As my branch has decided to recommend a 'Yes' to the 'Agreement' .. I shall present that argument to my members. I have briefed my deputy .. aided by informed opinions on here .. to present a 'counter' or 'No' recommendation! Rightly .. or wrongly .. I have decided that my own personal opinion on such an important issue that we face .. to be 'secondary'! At meetings .. most of my members just want to dive off & prep their walk! My aim is get them all involved in the debate .. supply them with as many facts & view points as I possibly can & to get them ALL to vote. I was told a long time ago, 'Remember the member'!

I shall hope for the 'best' .. but prepare for the 'worst' I shall never stop fighting the R.M.bullies who have a stranglehold over the (mis)management structure! If it is decided .. nationwide .. that an all out head on confrontation is required .. then I shall be up for that! If it is decided .. nationwide .. that I have to run with the 'Agreement' .. then I shall adopt a 'softee softee .. catchy monkey' approach!

I thank everyone on here .. & respect their right .. to an opinion!

[BELIAL]

Not surprised you are confused LJ just paraphrasing your post, had the same effect on me.

doesn't surprise me - after all it doesn't contain any swear words

Whats your problem Love joy ? No swear words,sorry don't rely on expletives,please don't try to portray me as some half witted simian. Isimply do not agree with your desperate call for a yes vote.

I would like , if you can manage it , to keep this debate free from personal invective, this issue is to important to be subsumed with petty bickering. Your choice ,but we both know how it reads.

I vote NO . You vote yes , for what benefits?

SEEn that s**t before still s**t

You mealy mouthed weasel worded backstabing turncoat, piss off Hayes you f***ing career politician you gotta do better than that.

Do a week at my DO you portly twat ,youd be dead by WEdnesday

JUST A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES OF THE SAME BELIAL WHO DOES NOT USE EXPLETIVES????

PUT THESE WORDS TOGETHER AND FORM A SENTENCE MATE.....BLACK, KETTLE, POT, THE, CALLING

Didn't say I never used them ,just don't rely on them.

Now if you want to get twisty and take things out of context we can all do that but it won't achieve much. the quote you use above was a response on learning of the content of the proposed deal, thought it was s**t then and nothing you or anyone else has posted has altered my thinking. All those sacrifices for not one gain.

Seems you,ve changed your mind though ,were'nt you the one who th0ught the PEC were taking so long cos they had to work out just how they were going to manage to sell us the deal? obviously time well spent in a few cases. A good deal would have sold itself.

You do seem a little rattled lately,but I suppose if I was in your shoes having to push for this deals acceptance my conscience and nerves would be cracking to. Don't envy your chosen role one bit.

[lovejoy]

Not surprised you are confused LJ just paraphrasing your post, had the same effect on me.

doesn't surprise me - after all it doesn't contain any swear words

Whats your problem Love joy ? No swear words,sorry don't rely on expletives,please don't try to portray me as some half witted simian. Isimply do not agree with your desperate call for a yes vote.

I would like , if you can manage it , to keep this debate free from personal invective, this issue is to important to be subsumed with petty bickering. Your choice ,but we both know how it reads.

I vote NO . You vote yes , for what benefits?

SEEn that s**t before still s**t

You mealy mouthed weasel worded backstabing turncoat, piss off Hayes you f***ing career politician you gotta do better than that.

Do a week at my DO you portly twat ,youd be dead by WEdnesday

JUST A COUPLE OF EXAMPLES OF THE SAME BELIAL WHO DOES NOT USE EXPLETIVES????

PUT THESE WORDS TOGETHER AND FORM A SENTENCE MATE.....BLACK, KETTLE, POT, THE, CALLING

Didn't say I never used them ,just don't rely on them.

Now if you want to get twisty and take things out of context we can all do that but it won't achieve much. the quote you use above was a response on learning of the content of the proposed deal, thought it was s**t then and nothing you or anyone else has posted has altered my thinking. All those sacrifices for not one gain.

Seems you,ve changed your mind though ,were'nt you the one who th0ught the PEC were taking so long cos they had to work out just how they were going to manage to sell us the deal? obviously time well spent in a few cases. A good deal would have sold itself.

You do seem a little rattled lately,but I suppose if I was in your shoes having to push for this deals acceptance my conscience and nerves would be cracking to. Don't envy your chosen role one bit.

haha how sad that you label someone who can hold a debate with you as rattled. I can just answer your points thats all

all i do is pass on information i get from my branch reps plus my own opinions.

I have and never will say the agreement is perfect. No agreement could possibly please 130,000 members could it?

I'll just continue to post anything i get in the future as both information for other site users and to help an informed debate.

My chosen role is to have a debate with come colleagues in a friendly and informative manner. I don't and won't be pushing anything. That is the job of my reps / the national union.

I don't attack you for voting no do I?

[BELIAL]

Dear Lovejoy don't remember attacking you pal,just disagree with your view and some of your debating methods,but thanks for the inside info in the past.

Keeping it simple since you can answer all my points.

Could you please tell me of one improvement in our terms and conditions that we will enjoy if we vote yes?

[L Tommo]

Why did you have to take the BULLY bit out of contex mate>>>???? If you read back i NEVER CALLED YOU A BULLY .. I just said the word bully was brought up by you before and i feel it was used unfairly as RM use it... No more no less... No after you PM'd me and sorted it. I come back on here and see this below.....

OK.... I get on my HIGH HORSE because im fighting for a cause that you seem to want to wait and find out if your Unit back or go against?? Is it your opinion or is it your branches you bring on here??? If yours ?? Speak your mind and dont worry.. If your branches?? It should be down to them on everybodys own right to vote and not be swayed either way.. Buy you.. HQ or the NO voters... I feel this has gone on to long now and we all need to step back and take in all the reasons and meanings of our words and judgments... out,,,


Q: LJ I understand feelings are running high but in any context to be labelled a scab is hurtful

I don't need to come back with any lame my friend. On any issue and at any time i would be happy to have an adult debate with you. BULLY? i'm not the one who gets on his high horse everytime somebody says something you don't like!

If you don't like my views and can't handle a 2 way debate then don't get involved END Q :LJ

ps The last line of yours goes for you to........

[jafferpants]

Tommo old mate, sit down and take five. I don't like to see you in this state, We need to conserve our strength cos theres a lot of humble pie that we'll need to carry round to the yes voters a little way down the road. Peace my friend!!!

[L Tommo]

Jaffs me old china... Thanks for that but i feel that humble pie will be served by me with a pick axe...



I need to ave a lay down.... I can feel me pulse beating and me vains in me nut going as well.....



AND RELAX AHHHHHHHHHHHHH


out

[davidessex]

i would like to ask you lovejoy, if you really feel we have no alternative other than to vote yes,( because if we don,t, we won,t be able to get the many poeople out on strike who ignored it last time). if this is the case, then we have no union, as we pander to the people who ignore the call to strike. where does this end ?( if people who cross the line encourage the pec to not put up a fight on any future issue). maybe royal mail are aware that the pec would rather support the non strikers, , than have a battle on behalf of the no voters and risk losing their own status .

[jafferpants]

i would like to ask you lovejoy, if you really feel we have no alternative other than to vote yes, because if we don,t, we won,t be able to get the many poeople out on strike who ignored it last time. if this is the case, then we have no union, as we pander to the people who ignore the call to strike. where does this end ? if people who cross the line encourage the pec to not put up a fight on any future issue. maybe royal mail are aware that the pec would rather support the non strikers, , than have a battle on behalf of the no voters and risk losing their own status .

Good common sense but i'm afraid it's wasted on lj