COMPARING 9/9/07 DOC TO NOW!!

[L Tommo]

SCABBBBBBBB!

[lovejoy]

SCABBBBBBBB!

You calling me a scab?

[L Tommo]

LOVEJOY me old mucker Iknow what YOU say has a lot of credibility but i would like to point out out a few things PENSIONS defered to a later d2d defered to a later date early starts brought in by exec/action flexibility covering another p/man whether sick or on leave and leaving the rest down to LOCAL NEGOTIONATIONS is a bit of a bitter pill to swallow AFTER ALL THE SUPPOSED negotionations took place and a DEAL WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN STRUCK

agreed mate and i have never said that the agreement is perfect. My decision to back a yes vote is against the background of a number of things

Another point that makes me laugh is people seemed to have forgotten how they were struggling to get people on strike for the 48hr action.

There are branches going for a NO vote who had masses of members walking in on the last strike. If they can't get members out in Oct how the hell will they get them out at Christmas!!

Whilst the agreement stalls a lot of things this can be viewed in two ways. Ok so we haven't moved them completely but they are in are they!

Keeping the faith (just)

It makes no difference wether we think we can get a good turn out or not Lovejoy. The only consideration that matters, is wether we think that the deal is acceptable, and can be voted for with a clear concience.

Now I know from your other Posts, that you have carefully considered the deal, and thought things through before making your decision. It is what everyone should do.

However, I do object to you suggesting that people should vote for it, simply because the odds of winning are diminishing with time. Win or loose. It doesn't matter. So long as the stakes are high enough, and we feel passionately enough about our beliefs. Then it is up to each and every one of us to support any action that may be required.

i salute your commitment Andy but what i am saying is there are people on here slagging off the deal that can't even deliver their colleagues/members for more action. The stakes are high and if you vote no you must do so knowing there is a strong chance of more action with no real strategy in place to make further gains.

I for one will deliver if there is a no vote!!!

"I FOR ONE WILL DELIVER IF THERE IS A NO VOTE."

:lfo :cfo ANYONE WHO WILL DELIVER AFTER ALL THIS IS A SCAB IN MY MIND....

If the NO VOTE PREVAILS AND WE GO OUT.... WHAT ELSE CAN YOU BE IF YOU WORK???




OUT

[tenpole tudorsack]

[

I understand PEC voted ONLY 9:5 in favour...not very clear cut is it?

[lovejoy]

LOVEJOY me old mucker Iknow what YOU say has a lot of credibility but i would like to point out out a few things PENSIONS defered to a later d2d defered to a later date early starts brought in by exec/action flexibility covering another p/man whether sick or on leave and leaving the rest down to LOCAL NEGOTIONATIONS is a bit of a bitter pill to swallow AFTER ALL THE SUPPOSED negotionations took place and a DEAL WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN STRUCK

agreed mate and i have never said that the agreement is perfect. My decision to back a yes vote is against the background of a number of things

Another point that makes me laugh is people seemed to have forgotten how they were struggling to get people on strike for the 48hr action.

There are branches going for a NO vote who had masses of members walking in on the last strike. If they can't get members out in Oct how the hell will they get them out at Christmas!!

Whilst the agreement stalls a lot of things this can be viewed in two ways. Ok so we haven't moved them completely but they are in are they!

Keeping the faith (just)

It makes no difference wether we think we can get a good turn out or not Lovejoy. The only consideration that matters, is wether we think that the deal is acceptable, and can be voted for with a clear concience.

Now I know from your other Posts, that you have carefully considered the deal, and thought things through before making your decision. It is what everyone should do.

However, I do object to you suggesting that people should vote for it, simply because the odds of winning are diminishing with time. Win or loose. It doesn't matter. So long as the stakes are high enough, and we feel passionately enough about our beliefs. Then it is up to each and every one of us to support any action that may be required.

i salute your commitment Andy but what i am saying is there are people on here slagging off the deal that can't even deliver their colleagues/members for more action. The stakes are high and if you vote no you must do so knowing there is a strong chance of more action with no real strategy in place to make further gains.

I for one will deliver if there is a no vote!!!

"I FOR ONE WILL DELIVER IF THERE IS A NO VOTE."

:lfo :cfo ANYONE WHO WILL DELIVER AFTER ALL THIS IS A SCAB IN MY MIND....

If the NO VOTE PREVAILS AND WE GO OUT.... WHAT ELSE CAN YOU BE IF YOU WORK???




OUT

I meant i will deliver for the Union by hitting the streets and encouraging others to do so!!!!!!

Don't ever call me a scab again

[L Tommo]

say wot you fecking mean... DELIVER is a term of working.....



it was a misunderstanding... I admit... But if I put that in that last sentence i would see it as a member going against a vote of no and a membe willing to work..... I read your post before....


OUT

[BELIAL]

Not surprised you are confused LJ just paraphrasing your post, had the same effect on me.

doesn't surprise me - after all it doesn't contain any swear words

Whats your problem Love joy ? No swear words,sorry don't rely on expletives,please don't try to portray me as some half witted simian. Isimply do not agree with your desperate call for a yes vote.

I would like , if you can manage it , to keep this debate free from personal invective, this issue is to important to be subsumed with petty bickering. Your choice ,but we both know how it reads.

I vote NO . You vote yes , for what benefits?

[lovejoy]

say wot you fecking mean... DELIVER is a term of working.....



it was a misunderstanding... I admit... But if I put that in that last sentence i would see it as a member going against a vote of no and a membe willing to work..... I read your post before....


OUT

I would have hoped you would know whatever the outcome of the vote i will back the union. Always have done and always will do whatever the circumstances!!

My branch has put out more comms and put in more effort than any other branch in the country during this dispute and I am sure they will continue to do so!

Its not just about acting big on a website - its about leading where it matters most - In the workplace everyday

[L Tommo]

say wot you fecking mean... DELIVER is a term of working.....



it was a misunderstanding... I admit... But if I put that in that last sentence i would see it as a member going against a vote of no and a membe willing to work..... I read your post before....


OUT

I would have hoped you would know whatever the outcome of the vote i will back the union. Always have done and always will do whatever the circumstances!!

My branch has put out more comms and put in more effort than any other branch in the country during this dispute and I am sure they will continue to do so!

Its not just about acting big on a website - its about leading where it matters most - In the workplace everyday

I make you right LV..... Acting and saying things that aint thought thru are dangerous... And this is where i feel the PEC have been hoodwinked by RM....

What kind of deal were they thinking of when they walked in there with RM????

I for one wouldnt of stood the Bullshite that RM chucked at us in the media then asked for a BLACK OUT PERIOD of news!!!!

WHAT A FECKING CHEEK!!!!

I see you havnt said anymore about how you wrote your piece and the last line????

WHY???? Is it you can see how anyone could read this as YOU WORKING after a NO VOTE AND NO DOUBT STRIKE?????

I dont doubt anyone about striking or do i trust anyone so DONT ASK ME TO "KNOW WHATEVER THE OUTCOME OF THE VOTE I /U/ WILL BACK THE UNION."


As people all do things as you say... ON A PC... ARE ALL MOUTH AND NO ACTION.... This could be YOU or ME... But we only have ourselves to answer this....????

Now im not even a POSTMAN NOW AS IM ON APPEAL FOR MY JOB,,,, BUT I SPENT ENOUGH TIME ON MY PICKET LINE AND A 12 HR SESSION AS WELL IN ONE GO......

SO the people i fight with in MY MC know where i come from......

I would like to say the same for people on here but we dont all know each other..... And lines like yours dont help!!!

full stop!!!


WE ARE THE UNION.... NEVER LET THE BASTARD RM GRIND US DOWN!!!

[tenpole tudorsack]

say wot you fecking mean... DELIVER is a term of working.....



it was a misunderstanding... I admit... But if I put that in that last sentence i would see it as a member going against a vote of no and a membe willing to work..... I read your post before....


OUT

I would have hoped you would know whatever the outcome of the vote i will back the union. Always have done and always will do whatever the circumstances!!

My branch has put out more comms and put in more effort than any other branch in the country during this dispute and I am sure they will continue to do so!

Its not just about acting big on a website - its about leading where it matters most - In the workplace everyday

I have respect for your views, Lovejoy, my concern is that I fear there will be very little to "lead" (from a union point of view) if a "Yes" vote is sanctioned? We will have given too much ground and credibility to recover don't you think?

[lovejoy]

say wot you fecking mean... DELIVER is a term of working.....



it was a misunderstanding... I admit... But if I put that in that last sentence i would see it as a member going against a vote of no and a membe willing to work..... I read your post before....


OUT

I would have hoped you would know whatever the outcome of the vote i will back the union. Always have done and always will do whatever the circumstances!!

My branch has put out more comms and put in more effort than any other branch in the country during this dispute and I am sure they will continue to do so!

Its not just about acting big on a website - its about leading where it matters most - In the workplace everyday

I make you right LV..... Acting and saying things that aint thought thru are dangerous... And this is where i feel the PEC have been hoodwinked by RM....

What kind of deal were they thinking of when they walked in there with RM????

I for one wouldnt of stood the Bullshite that RM chucked at us in the media then asked for a BLACK OUT PERIOD of news!!!!

WHAT A FECKING CHEEK!!!!

I see you havnt said anymore about how you wrote your piece and the last line????

WHY???? Is it you can see how anyone could read this as YOU WORKING after a NO VOTE AND NO DOUBT STRIKE?????

I dont doubt anyone about striking or do i trust anyone so DONT ASK ME TO "KNOW WHATEVER THE OUTCOME OF THE VOTE I /U/ WILL BACK THE UNION."


As people all do things as you say... ON A PC... ARE ALL MOUTH AND NO ACTION.... This could be YOU or ME... But we only have ourselves to answer this....????

Now im not even a POSTMAN NOW AS IM ON APPEAL FOR MY JOB,,,, BUT I SPENT ENOUGH TIME ON MY PICKET LINE AND A 12 HR SESSION AS WELL IN ONE GO......

SO the people i fight with in MY MC know where i come from......

I would like to say the same for people on here but we dont all know each other..... And lines like yours dont help!!!

full stop!!!

Lines like mine?? I will deliver if there is a no vote! Do i say i will deliver mail?? Do I say i will work during a strike? I don't even work in a delivery office!!

People like you are exactly the reason that good people who may be swaying will vote YES. Anyone undecided will be looking for a common sense unbias approach not some gobs**te who thinks its big to abuse anyone who dares to go against your opinion. Just imagine if you haven't made your mind up. Who do you look to? The people who voted no on the PEC? - Oh theres the same old silence! Or do you come on here and get abused for daring to hint you may be voting yes!

I respect your view the same as I do everyone else's. What i don't respect is the way you react every time somebody says something you don't like!

I'll vote Yes and you'll vote no but if there is a national no vote and we take more action then i'm sure we'll both back it. Surely at the end of the day thats all that matters.

[lovejoy]

say wot you fecking mean... DELIVER is a term of working.....



it was a misunderstanding... I admit... But if I put that in that last sentence i would see it as a member going against a vote of no and a membe willing to work..... I read your post before....


OUT

I would have hoped you would know whatever the outcome of the vote i will back the union. Always have done and always will do whatever the circumstances!!

My branch has put out more comms and put in more effort than any other branch in the country during this dispute and I am sure they will continue to do so!

Its not just about acting big on a website - its about leading where it matters most - In the workplace everyday

I make you right LV..... Acting and saying things that aint thought thru are dangerous... And this is where i feel the PEC have been hoodwinked by RM....

What kind of deal were they thinking of when they walked in there with RM????

I for one wouldnt of stood the Bullshite that RM chucked at us in the media then asked for a BLACK OUT PERIOD of news!!!!

WHAT A FECKING CHEEK!!!!

I see you havnt said anymore about how you wrote your piece and the last line????

WHY???? Is it you can see how anyone could read this as YOU WORKING after a NO VOTE AND NO DOUBT STRIKE?????

I dont doubt anyone about striking or do i trust anyone so DONT ASK ME TO "KNOW WHATEVER THE OUTCOME OF THE VOTE I /U/ WILL BACK THE UNION."


As people all do things as you say... ON A PC... ARE ALL MOUTH AND NO ACTION.... This could be YOU or ME... But we only have ourselves to answer this....????

Now im not even a POSTMAN NOW AS IM ON APPEAL FOR MY JOB,,,, BUT I SPENT ENOUGH TIME ON MY PICKET LINE AND A 12 HR SESSION AS WELL IN ONE GO......

SO the people i fight with in MY MC know where i come from......

I would like to say the same for people on here but we dont all know each other..... And lines like yours dont help!!!

full stop!!!


WE ARE THE UNION.... NEVER LET THE BASTARD RM GRIND US DOWN!!!

Lines like mine?? I will deliver if there is a no vote! Do i say i will deliver mail?? Do I say i will work during a strike? I don't even work in a delivery office!!

People like you are exactly the reason that good people who may be swaying will vote YES. Anyone undecided will be looking for a common sense unbias approach not some gobs**te who thinks its big to abuse anyone who dares to go against your opinion. Just imagine if you haven't made your mind up. Who do you look to? The people who voted no on the PEC? - Oh theres the same old silence! Or do you come on here and get abused for daring to hint you may be voting yes!

I respect your view the same as I do everyone else's. What i don't respect is the way you react every time somebody says something you don't like!

I'll vote Yes and you'll vote no but if there is a national no vote and we take more action then i'm sure we'll both back it. Surely at the end of the day thats all that matters.

[BELIAL]

Not surprised you are confused LJ just paraphrasing your post, had the same effect on me.

doesn't surprise me - after all it doesn't contain any swear words

Whats your problem Love joy ? No swear words,sorry don't rely on expletives,please don't try to portray me as some half witted simian. Isimply do not agree with your desperate call for a yes vote.

I would like , if you can manage it , to keep this debate free from personal invective, this issue is to important to be subsumed with petty bickering. Your choice ,but we both know how it reads.

I vote NO . You vote yes , for what benefits?

[lovejoy]

Not surprised you are confused LJ just paraphrasing your post, had the same effect on me.

doesn't surprise me - after all it doesn't contain any swear words

Whats your problem Love joy ? No swear words,sorry don't rely on expletives,please don't try to portray me as some half witted simian. Isimply do not agree with your desperate call for a yes vote.

I would like , if you can manage it , to keep this debate free from personal invective, this issue is to important to be subsumed with petty bickering. Your choice ,but we both know how it reads.

I vote NO . You vote yes , for what benefits?

You've asked me that question a few time Belial and I have posted why I will be voting Yes.

I tell you what if you don't like the debate why don't you go off to another thread where your view won't be challenged and you can uff your chest out and call for a big no vote and push forward your tactical strategy for moving this dispute forward which is???????????????????????????/

[jafferpants]

Not surprised you are confused LJ just paraphrasing your post, had the same effect on me.

doesn't surprise me - after all it doesn't contain any swear words

Whats your problem Love joy ? No swear words,sorry don't rely on expletives,please don't try to portray me as some half witted simian. Isimply do not agree with your desperate call for a yes vote.

I would like , if you can manage it , to keep this debate free from personal invective, this issue is to important to be subsumed with petty bickering. Your choice ,but we both know how it reads.

I vote NO . You vote yes , for what benefits?

Belial excuse me a moment i'm off to get a dictionary