Strike Update 3rd week of mediation

[Driver74]

As RobertT has pointed out on a previous thread there has never been a one pension scheme for all there is section A,B,C and 2008 onwards each one worse than the one before so it’s hard to see that changing going forward

[Martin Walsh]

It is all speculation to predict what will happen over the next few weeks.

It is a massive task for the mediator and it now important people understand that the 4 pillars and the pipeline have different timelines for postential resolution.

remember whether it is Royal Mail”s pension proposal or indeed the Union”s WINRs scheme both need government aproval and even if both parties agree in principle there will be no pension agreement until the Government clears any new pension.

Pay is due and has been since April.

The pipeline changes , multi bundle , walk ownership and automated hours data capture , later starts will be from mid next year after pilots and trials in selective offices. The roll out will be linked to the shorter working week

Industrial stability including an independent review into workplace culture can be agreed but will obviously take some time to conclude and this will be linked to the part time increases in contract review.

The extension of the legal guarantees is being opposed by Royal Mail in their submissions as they believe the workplaces have been delaying the impemenentation of certain national agreeemnts such as PAD , Network 17 , COLOD 2 & 3, collection hub optimisation , closing of MPU,s including Sunday .

Royal Mail want to reduce the numer of Area Reps which they want to link to the OPS manager role and they want to review MTSF , RRIS and TPM. In addition they want a time limit of trials of 90 days and than a clear line of deployment to other units.

Do we believe we are really going to reach and agreement on all of this in the new 3 weeks ? No the reality is that from a unions point of view our ballot is live for 6 months and this is being argued in the mediation that the 6 months should start at the end of mediation so why would we want to close down an agreement when the timelines on the above issues are different ?

The key is can both parties reach agreement on the principes of some and the details on others ? If Royal Mail want more time for mediation and let’s be honest they as a shareholder driven company did not really want mediation and someone independent providing recommendations , they went to mediation because it was only thing which stopped a strike.

Royal Mail will have to offer something to keep the talks going ? We can all speculate and most are predicting pay will be offered to keep the talks going with the promise of back pay being paid before christmas. However there is a lot which can happen in the next couple of weeks and the one issues which remains the elephant in the room is Pensions.

If within next couple of weeks Royal Mail don’t make a move than the Postal Executive have a choice. Do we announce a strike the week leading up to Christmas , when everyone has been paid their Christmas bonus which is due on 15th December or do we announce it between the eves or wait until January.

The stakes are high for both sides and some believe that a deal is in the bag , this is not like your normal dispute as pensions is huge for both sides and the timelines are different for all the issues. For example Royal Mail have moved from 17:00 to 15:30 and they claim it has cost them over 75 million by making that moves as if it was 17:00 every single flight which carried mail over land not sea would be cancelled and that delivers massive savings and now their plan for savings is less and so they will want recovers hence why they are proposing to saving 75 million on national insurance contributions from their expenditure on pensions from 400 million to 375 million. They still don’t want deliveries to leave the office until after 10:30 thou.

[LouBarlow]

All this talk of later starts seems like the union laying the groundwork for it being a concession they 'win' during these talks, as our office are having our start times brought forward. We are starting 30 minutes earlier. Doesn't seem to equate to what the union is telling us.

[geordieboy123]

It is all speculation to predict what will happen over the next few weeks.

It is a massive task for the mediator and it now important people understand that the 4 pillars and the pipeline have different timelines for postential resolution.

remember whether it is Royal Mail”s pension proposal or indeed the Union”s WINRs scheme both need government aproval and even if both parties agree in principle there will be no pension agreement until the Government clears any new pension.

Pay is due and has been since April.

The pipeline changes , multi bundle , walk ownership and automated hours data capture , later starts will be from mid next year after pilots and trials in selective offices. The roll out will be linked to the shorter working week

Industrial stability including an independent review into workplace culture can be agreed but will obviously take some time to conclude and this will be linked to the part time increases in contract review.

The extension of the legal guarantees is being opposed by Royal Mail in their submissions as they believe the workplaces have been delaying the impemenentation of certain national agreeemnts such as PAD , Network 17 , COLOD 2 & 3, collection hub optimisation , closing of MPU,s including Sunday .

Royal Mail want to reduce the numer of Area Reps which they want to link to the OPS manager role and they want to review MTSF , RRIS and TPM. In addition they want a time limit of trials of 90 days and than a clear line of deployment to other units.

Do we believe we are really going to reach and agreement on all of this in the new 3 weeks ? No the reality is that from a unions point of view our ballot is live for 6 months and this is being argued in the mediation that the 6 months should start at the end of mediation so why would we want to close down an agreement when the timelines on the above issues are different ?

The key is can both parties reach agreement on the principes of some and the details on others ? If Royal Mail want more time for mediation and let’s be honest they as a shareholder driven company did not really want mediation and someone independent providing recommendations , they went to mediation because it was only thing which stopped a strike.

Royal Mail will have to offer something to keep the talks going ? We can all speculate and most are predicting pay will be offered to keep the talks going with the promise of back pay being paid before christmas. However there is a lot which can happen in the next couple of weeks and the one issues which remains the elephant in the room is Pensions.

If within next couple of weeks Royal Mail don’t make a move than the Postal Executive have a choice. Do we announce a strike the week leading up to Christmas , when everyone has been paid their Christmas bonus which is due on 15th December or do we announce it between the eves or wait until January.

The stakes are high for both sides and some believe that a deal is in the bag , this is not like your normal dispute as pensions is huge for both sides and the timelines are different for all the issues. For example Royal Mail have moved from 17:00 to 15:30 and they claim it has cost them over 75 million by making that moves as if it was 17:00 every single flight which carried mail over land not sea would be cancelled and that delivers massive savings and now their plan for savings is less and so they will want recovers hence why they are proposing to saving 75 million on national insurance contributions from their expenditure on pensions from 400 million to 375 million. They still don’t want deliveries to leave the office until after 10:30 thou.

What's MTSF,RRIS and TPM ?

[Ozzvaldo]

Many deliveries on Wed, Thu and Fri in my office don't put their first letters in until 10.30 already, and not just in the run up to Christmas either.

[SpacePhoenix]

Shorter working week hasn't got a hope in hell of happening/working. All shifts go down to the wire as it is, so you take out 4 hours per week and chances are that most shifts will start to fail a lot. The only way it will work is if meal reliefs are made unpaid

[worktotime]

Shorter working week hasn't got a hope in hell of happening/working. All shifts go down to the wire as it is, so you take out 4 hours per week and chances are that most shifts will start to fail a lot. The only way it will work is if meal reliefs are made unpaid

I would love to see how a 35 hr week would work in delivery , most weeks we do 45 + hours a week just to get round our delivery with nothing extra , so good luck with that one.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

What's MTSF,RRIS and TPM ?

https://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communi ... 14#p687014" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[cloherty1976]

Shorter working week hasn't got a hope in hell of happening/working. All shifts go down to the wire as it is, so you take out 4 hours per week and chances are that most shifts will start to fail a lot. The only way it will work is if meal reliefs are made unpaid

Back in the 80's used to do 41 hours 18 minutes.
2017 we do 36 hours 15 minutes with 5 hours unpaid meal reliefs.
Wow 30 years later we are 3 minutes better off.
Was it worth the effort

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Shorter working week hasn't got a hope in hell of happening/working. All shifts go down to the wire as it is, so you take out 4 hours per week and chances are that most shifts will start to fail a lot. The only way it will work is if meal reliefs are made unpaid

Back in the 80's used to do 41 hours 18 minutes.
2017 we do 36 hours 15 minutes with 5 hours unpaid meal reliefs.
Wow 30 years later we are 3 minutes better off.
Was it worth the effort

You are both missing the point.

The vast majority of members are in delivery, and its the most physical job in the business. Its simply not possible to keep increasing the delivery span as automation increases. Some posties are walking half marathons every day now, and with the average age only increasing, there has to be a sensible limit to how far and for how long people are expected to work in all weathers. That means a defacto SWW for deliveries at least.

Whether its going to work in Mail Centres, or if its worked for drivers is frankly a secondary issue.

[cloherty1976]

Shorter working week hasn't got a hope in hell of happening/working. All shifts go down to the wire as it is, so you take out 4 hours per week and chances are that most shifts will start to fail a lot. The only way it will work is if meal reliefs are made unpaid

Back in the 80's used to do 41 hours 18 minutes.
2017 we do 36 hours 15 minutes with 5 hours unpaid meal reliefs.
Wow 30 years later we are 3 minutes better off.
Was it worth the effort

You are both missing the point.

The vast majority of members are in delivery, and its the most physical job in the business. Its simply not possible to keep increasing the delivery span as automation increases. Some posties are walking half marathons every day now, and with the average age only increasing, there has to be a sensible limit to how far and for how long people are expected to work in all weathers. That means a defacto SWW for deliveries at least.

Whether its going to work in Mail Centres, or if its worked for drivers is frankly a secondary issue.

Separate us then and we can then worry about our own issues

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Shorter working week hasn't got a hope in hell of happening/working. All shifts go down to the wire as it is, so you take out 4 hours per week and chances are that most shifts will start to fail a lot. The only way it will work is if meal reliefs are made unpaid

Back in the 80's used to do 41 hours 18 minutes.
2017 we do 36 hours 15 minutes with 5 hours unpaid meal reliefs.
Wow 30 years later we are 3 minutes better off.
Was it worth the effort

You are both missing the point.

The vast majority of members are in delivery, and its the most physical job in the business. Its simply not possible to keep increasing the delivery span as automation increases. Some posties are walking half marathons every day now, and with the average age only increasing, there has to be a sensible limit to how far and for how long people are expected to work in all weathers. That means a defacto SWW for deliveries at least.

Whether its going to work in Mail Centres, or if its worked for drivers is frankly a secondary issue.

Separate us then and we can then worry about our own issues

Hopefully, you are still missing the point, or you are being intentionally rude. I hope its the former, or perhaps just badly worded.

[cloherty1976]

Shorter working week hasn't got a hope in hell of happening/working. All shifts go down to the wire as it is, so you take out 4 hours per week and chances are that most shifts will start to fail a lot. The only way it will work is if meal reliefs are made unpaid

Back in the 80's used to do 41 hours 18 minutes.
2017 we do 36 hours 15 minutes with 5 hours unpaid meal reliefs.
Wow 30 years later we are 3 minutes better off.
Was it worth the effort

You are both missing the point.

The vast majority of members are in delivery, and its the most physical job in the business. Its simply not possible to keep increasing the delivery span as automation increases. Some posties are walking half marathons every day now, and with the average age only increasing, there has to be a sensible limit to how far and for how long people are expected to work in all weathers. That means a defacto SWW for deliveries at least.

Whether its going to work in Mail Centres, or if its worked for drivers is frankly a secondary issue.

Separate us then and we can then worry about our own issues

Hopefully, you are still missing the point, or you are being intentionally rude. I hope its the former, or perhaps just badly worded.

Sorry but they way I read your comment is that it's all about delivery

[fishtank]

The shorter working week obviously primarily affects delivery staff, If there is a reduction in workload in processing or distribution it can be managed through a reduction in headcount. In delivery a reduction in workload does not mean fewer delivery points so the only way to reduce headcount would be to increase the number of delivery points each member covers. At some point ( and I would suggest we're already there ) this becomes physically unsustainable.

At that point we are faced with two options, either increase the part-time ratio or reduce the working week. The main problem with that is the vast difference in workload resourcing and items/wh from area to area in this business. I would respectfully suggest that in some areas delivery staff are barely working a 35hr week right now whereas others are probably averaging over 40hrs.

[GRS]

If this thread has shown nothing else it highlights the fact that strikes before Christmas will be highly devisive and that is something the union will be very wary of. It will be dreadful for the union to call a strike and for different reasons half the staff are in working. Once that happens our hand will be severely weakened and it will be downhill from then on.