COMPARING 9/9/07 DOC TO NOW!!

[ulster postie]

GOOD QUESTION BUT WE NEED PEOPLE THAT WILL SPILL SOME BLOOD FOR THE MEMBERSHIP

[lovejoy]

GOOD QUESTION BUT WE NEED PEOPLE THAT WILL SPILL SOME BLOOD FOR THE MEMBERSHIP

Agreed. There are some really good PEC members who work their asses off - John Farnan, Noel McClean, Phil Browne, Carl Maden to name a few but we need the 13 people on the PEC to be the 13 best in the UK but that isn't the case - in my opinion

[ulster postie]

that only leaves 4 to find then

[lovejoy]

that only leaves 4 to find then

ah the famous 5 no voters!! Where are they ulster postie?? They were bug enough to vote no they should be big enough to come out and tell us why and if needs be lead the campaign!!!

[ulster postie]

totaly agree m8 but they have to remember that they will be asking us to vote again very shortly

[geopip]

i was asked to take I/A because we the union where in dispute with R.M. on a number of issues.
THE PENSION
EARLY STARTS THRU EX/ACTION
D2Ds
FLEXIBLE WORKING
PAY
We are now being asked to accept the deal which billy and dave agreed WHY
There seems to be more unagreed I.E. put on the back burner for another day
WHY DID THE P.E.C. GO ALONG WITH THIS, I THINK A, B & H CASE COULD FOLLOW. WHEN SENIOR OFFICERS REFUSED TO PUT THEIR NAMES TO THIS DOCUMENT IT TELLS ME SOMETHING.
REJECT THIS DEAL TELL BILLY AND DAVE TO GET BACK IN THERE AND GET THE DEAL WE ARE ENTITLED TO.

Yes offices have refused to sign doc and PEC members voted against it. The only one who has spoke out is Dave Warren. Where are the rest of them?? If they were dead against the deal surely they'd be speaking out ?? Surely if they wanted to protect us then they would not sit on their hands??

Or is it because the national elections are around the corner and it is merely political positioning?? I would like to be proven wrong but I say the silence from them says it all!!

You know Lovejoy that the officers and the PEC Members are bound by the majority decision on the executive and won't speak out against the deal to show a united front. The fact that the three National Officers covering Royal Mail did not put their names to the agreement speaks volumes. It would appear that some senior representatives from a certain area are selling the agreement only to protect there own future positions within the union.

Stay on the Dave Ward gravy boat train.

[davidessex]

your right, the second document does have cwu influence written all over it, VERY WORRYING ! perhaps they were protecting their own positions rather than ours. anyone find it strange that talks broke off with rm, we took strike action, a later start was imposed on us, hey presto cwu "NOTED IT", AND TALKS RESUMED ! WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF THE LATER START WAS IMPOSED WHILE TALKS WERE ONGOING ? WAS THIS A COSY ARRANGEMENT BETWEEN RM/CWU TO SAVE CWU FACES given the deal they have now ratified ? re resuming early saturday starts, is this a concession ? if it is you can poke it. whose benifit is it for ? what if one office in the ss postcode wants to stay at 0615 and the others don,t ? or most want a 0615 and a few want 0500, how does the missort run match up accross the region ? also if mail posted friday can arrive for a 0500 start saturday morning why can,t it on any other day of the week? is the 56mph restriction a weekday thing ? any thoughts anyone ?

[lovejoy]

i was asked to take I/A because we the union where in dispute with R.M. on a number of issues.
THE PENSION
EARLY STARTS THRU EX/ACTION
D2Ds
FLEXIBLE WORKING
PAY
We are now being asked to accept the deal which billy and dave agreed WHY
There seems to be more unagreed I.E. put on the back burner for another day
WHY DID THE P.E.C. GO ALONG WITH THIS, I THINK A, B & H CASE COULD FOLLOW. WHEN SENIOR OFFICERS REFUSED TO PUT THEIR NAMES TO THIS DOCUMENT IT TELLS ME SOMETHING.
REJECT THIS DEAL TELL BILLY AND DAVE TO GET BACK IN THERE AND GET THE DEAL WE ARE ENTITLED TO.

Yes offices have refused to sign doc and PEC members voted against it. The only one who has spoke out is Dave Warren. Where are the rest of them?? If they were dead against the deal surely they'd be speaking out ?? Surely if they wanted to protect us then they would not sit on their hands??

Or is it because the national elections are around the corner and it is merely political positioning?? I would like to be proven wrong but I say the silence from them says it all!!

You know Lovejoy that the officers and the PEC Members are bound by the majority decision on the executive and won't speak out against the deal to show a united front. The fact that the three National Officers covering Royal Mail did not put their names to the agreement speaks volumes. It would appear that some senior representatives from a certain area are selling the agreement only to protect there own future positions within the union.

Stay on the Dave Ward gravy boat train.

So why has Dave Warren spoken out then?

[ulster postie]

So why has Dave Warren spoken out then?

MABE HE SEES A TOP JOB IN THE NEAR FUTURE

[geopip]

i was asked to take I/A because we the union where in dispute with R.M. on a number of issues.
THE PENSION
EARLY STARTS THRU EX/ACTION
D2Ds
FLEXIBLE WORKING
PAY
We are now being asked to accept the deal which billy and dave agreed WHY
There seems to be more unagreed I.E. put on the back burner for another day
WHY DID THE P.E.C. GO ALONG WITH THIS, I THINK A, B & H CASE COULD FOLLOW. WHEN SENIOR OFFICERS REFUSED TO PUT THEIR NAMES TO THIS DOCUMENT IT TELLS ME SOMETHING.
REJECT THIS DEAL TELL BILLY AND DAVE TO GET BACK IN THERE AND GET THE DEAL WE ARE ENTITLED TO.

Yes offices have refused to sign doc and PEC members voted against it. The only one who has spoke out is Dave Warren. Where are the rest of them?? If they were dead against the deal surely they'd be speaking out ?? Surely if they wanted to protect us then they would not sit on their hands??

Or is it because the national elections are around the corner and it is merely political positioning?? I would like to be proven wrong but I say the silence from them says it all!!

You know Lovejoy that the officers and the PEC Members are bound by the majority decision on the executive and won't speak out against the deal to show a united front. The fact that the three National Officers covering Royal Mail did not put their names to the agreement speaks volumes. It would appear that some senior representatives from a certain area are selling the agreement only to protect there own future positions within the union.

Stay on the Dave Ward gravy boat train.

So why has Dave Warren spoken out then?[/quote

Dave Warren has shown dissension and has put himself on the line. This is an extremely unusual position for any PEC Member to take but so is the fact that three officers will not back the agreement.

You can sell all the good bits as much as u like (of which there are not many) but the agreement is not good enough for our members and is not what they went on strike for.

[lovejoy]

So why has Dave Warren spoken out then?

MABE HE SEES A TOP JOB IN THE NEAR FUTURE

Possibly mate but wouldn't it be nice if one of them spoke out because they wanted to defend us and not themselves!!!!!!!!!

[lovejoy]

i was asked to take I/A because we the union where in dispute with R.M. on a number of issues.
THE PENSION
EARLY STARTS THRU EX/ACTION
D2Ds
FLEXIBLE WORKING
PAY
We are now being asked to accept the deal which billy and dave agreed WHY
There seems to be more unagreed I.E. put on the back burner for another day
WHY DID THE P.E.C. GO ALONG WITH THIS, I THINK A, B & H CASE COULD FOLLOW. WHEN SENIOR OFFICERS REFUSED TO PUT THEIR NAMES TO THIS DOCUMENT IT TELLS ME SOMETHING.
REJECT THIS DEAL TELL BILLY AND DAVE TO GET BACK IN THERE AND GET THE DEAL WE ARE ENTITLED TO.

Yes offices have refused to sign doc and PEC members voted against it. The only one who has spoke out is Dave Warren. Where are the rest of them?? If they were dead against the deal surely they'd be speaking out ?? Surely if they wanted to protect us then they would not sit on their hands??

Or is it because the national elections are around the corner and it is merely political positioning?? I would like to be proven wrong but I say the silence from them says it all!!

You know Lovejoy that the officers and the PEC Members are bound by the majority decision on the executive and won't speak out against the deal to show a united front. The fact that the three National Officers covering Royal Mail did not put their names to the agreement speaks volumes. It would appear that some senior representatives from a certain area are selling the agreement only to protect there own future positions within the union.

Stay on the Dave Ward gravy boat train.

So why has Dave Warren spoken out then?[/quote

Dave Warren has shown dissension and has put himself on the line. This is an extremely unusual position for any PEC Member to take but so is the fact that three officers will not back the agreement.

You can sell all the good bits as much as u like (of which there are not many) but the agreement is not good enough for our members and is not what they went on strike for.

Yes it is an unusual position but what is the point if saying NO then just going into hiding. If these people had the guts to come out then they could make a real difference in the vote

Whether or not the agreement is good enough will be decided by the membership.

[davidessex]

as mentioned earlier in the debate, maybe elections play a part. i think we should serve notice to the pec to start representing us and not their positions, i will consider stopping my union fees as a protest to their incompetence. they then have the choice of removing me as a member. if enough people do this they will have no membership to shaft. this is is not just aimed at the people who ratified the deal but also the silent members who have not identified themselves and given their reasons for doing so. i and many others, through this forum, are giving our opinions and are willing to be educated/corrected by people who know more than we do, their silence is deafening ! i am obviously from the south, i hear whispers that there is too much "london" influence on the pec , not in numbers but in INFLUENCE i,m ready to be corrected.

[ulster postie]

So why has Dave Warren spoken out then?

MABE HE SEES A TOP JOB IN THE NEAR FUTURE

Possibly mate but wouldn't it be nice if one of them spoke out because they wanted to defend us and not themselves!!!!!!!!!

HERE HERE YOU CAN FULL SOME OF THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME
ALL OF THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME
BUT NOT ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME

[Geordie]

Interesting debate.

Lovejoy - (hypothetically) if your Branch are recommending the agreement, would you expect your officials and committee to recommend the deal individually, or would you be happy to see them come out of the woodwork and tell people to vote no?

The EC are elected to represent all members, and regardless of the vote taken, are then expected to carry out the views of the executive, not their own.