Mediation Update : CWU and Royal Mail have now agreed the external mediator

[tucker12345]

Just checked the agenda for growth agreement section 5.4 external mediation I read it as 5 weeks talks then if no deal is done the cwu can give 2 weeks notice that's 7 weeks in total that takes us to w/c 18th Dec

[worktotime]

Somebody's been at the sherry.
Fighting talk has its place. I've done my share of it in this dispute and every other one but I'm a firm believer in being honest with the members. Put away your fighting trousers, it's time for the talking and the dealing and a little reality check, we've played our cards and they've given RM something to think about especially the lack of faith the staff has in their business plan but all the cards are on the table now and we'll see how it plays out.

Strikes in January are only a serious threat if they up the stakes and give the union no genuine out and they know that's not in anyone's interests at this point.

do you think these at the top actually give a s**t that the staff don't agree with what they want ? just look at the way staff are treated everyday do you think that will change ?

[fishtank]

Just checked the agenda for growth agreement section 5.4 external mediation I read it as 5 weeks talks then if no deal is done the cwu can give 2 weeks notice that's 7 weeks in total that takes us to w/c 18th Dec

The union reads it differently.

The CWU intend to ensure the mediation process is completed strictly in line with the
words and timescales set out in the Agenda for Growth Agreement. This requires the
appointment of an external Mediator within seven days of the Court ruling and a maximum
of four weeks for the mediation process. The parties must then meet within a week of the
process concluding to decide their response to the Mediators report after which there is a
two week cooling off period.

7 weeks for the process + 2 weeks notice = 9 weeks.

[Danelectro]

Somebody's been at the sherry.
Fighting talk has its place. I've done my share of it in this dispute and every other one but I'm a firm believer in being honest with the members. Put away your fighting trousers, it's time for the talking and the dealing and a little reality check, we've played our cards and they've given RM something to think about especially the lack of faith the staff has in their business plan but all the cards are on the table now and we'll see how it plays out.

Strikes in January are only a serious threat if they up the stakes and give the union no genuine out and they know that's not in anyone's interests at this point.

do you think these at the top actually give a s**t that the staff don't agree with what they want ? just look at the way staff are treated everyday do you think that will change ?

I agree that lack of faith from staff in their business plan matters not one jot to RM or the shareholders.Is there faith in Amazons business plan by its warehouse workers? Certainly not but they just gotta get on with it.

Everything that Fishtank says is highly probable but there's nothing to stop Greene gambling on stringing out the talks and testing the CWU at the gate as the best way to increase shareholders returns in the long run (BA dispute) as if strikes are so ineffective and never gonna happen in the New Year wheres the need to make a 'best' deal/crappy deal?

[wandle]

The fact that Moya has finally got involved is, I would speculate, a measure of how serious the situation has become. You can bet major customers and those owning significant shareholdings have been applying additional pressure on the CEO to resolve this. I think it is highly improbable that Greene will 'test' whether there is an appetite for a post-Christmas strike. One, because it presents massive risks to her career at Royal Mail and any post-RM job she might aspire to, having been so reckless with shareholders' money, and, two, because the period immediately after Boxing Day is awash with online orders from Christmas sales and almost as busy as the days running up to Christmas.
To paraphrase from the movie 'Dirty Harry', Moya's train of thought may need to be

'Did the CWU get a 90% yes vote, or was it 89.1%? Well to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I kind of lost track myself. But being that this is a potentially catastrophic strike, for the staff, the customers, the shareholders, and even myself personally, the most powerful weapon 'my people' in Royal Mail have at their disposal, and could ruin my career, I guess i gotta ask myself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?'

Well do ya, punk?

[fishtank]

Terry was standing on the steps waiting to go in to the talks telling members we're not going to wait 6, 7 or 9 weeks if it looks like Royal Mail are stringing it out.

Is this panto season already? What does " looks like stringing it out" look like? Of course they'll string it out but they're not going to wear "we're stringing it out" t-shirts. The CWU can't bail early from the mediation process or off to court we go to piss away more members money. In trying to play to the crowd and talk tough he's in danger of underestimating the intelligence of a great deal of the membership. We know we've legally tied ourselves to this ridiculous process, we know we need to see it through to the end, we know pre-Christmas strikes ain't happening, just get on with it Terry and save the bravado for the pub.

[greengiant]

Terry was standing on the steps waiting to go in to the talks telling members we're not going to wait 6, 7 or 9 weeks if it looks like Royal Mail are stringing it out.

Is this panto season already? What does " looks like stringing it out" look like? Of course they'll string it out but they're not going to wear "we're stringing it out" t-shirts. The CWU can't bail early from the mediation process or off to court we go to piss away more members money. In trying to play to the crowd and talk tough he's in danger of underestimating the intelligence of a great deal of the membership. We know we've legally tied ourselves to this ridiculous process, we know we need to see it through to the end, we know pre-Christmas strikes ain't happening, just get on with it Terry and save the bravado for the pub.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

22728708_10159444936995510_1215445146798946151_n (1).jpg

[stevenshm]

Looking at the last section they will still be talking and will be in the same boat
this time next year

[jetblack]

You're not really getting it. Royal Mail will put a deal to the union during the mediation period, it will not be wonderful for us but because they want a deal as badly as we do it will be 99% as far as they can possibly go. Would you ask the members to strike in January for the other 1%?

This is all very interesting Fishtank. But TBH I strongly suspect that it will not be '99% as far as they can possibly go'. How would we quantify that, as a matter of interest ?
It doesn't really matter - all that matters is the resolve of the union and its members. If '99%' isn't far enough (or if, in the cold light of day, its not 99% at all - but a mere 55%) then they can shove it up their arses.
And no - I haven't been at the sherry.
The way you describe it it all sounds as if its pre-ordained. You should have told us all this a couple of months back and saved us all a lot of anxiety.
It isn't pre-ordained FT. We have agency here.

[k979aaa]

You're not really getting it. Royal Mail will put a deal to the union during the mediation period, it will not be wonderful for us but because they want a deal as badly as we do it will be 99% as far as they can possibly go. Would you ask the members to strike in January for the other 1%?

This is all very interesting Fishtank. But TBH I strongly suspect that it will not be '99% as far as they can possibly go'. How would we quantify that, as a matter of interest ?
It doesn't really matter - all that matters is the resolve of the union and its members. If '99%' isn't far enough (or if, in the cold light of day, its not 99% at all - but a mere 55%) then they can shove it up their arses.
And no - I haven't been at the sherry.
The way you describe it it all sounds as if its pre-ordained. You should have told us all this a couple of months back and saved us all a lot of anxiety.
It isn't pre-ordained FT. We have agency here.

They want agency staff to become the norm for all of us not just HGV as their whole idea is a transient workforce where we come and go especially before 2 years and contract extensions the whole thing is down to the government and RM are just taking advantage of us all and the law which they are very good at!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I, however, get what Fishtank is saying.

Royal Mail will make concessions, so will the Union, they both have to or we wind up in permanent dispute. That's good for the revolutionary socialists amongst us, but not so good for the rest.

When both sides are in mediation and talks trying to come to an agreement whilst we will never agree on anything, somewhere there comes a point of diminishing returns when the sacrifice required of members is not compensated enough by possible concessions from the other side.

When that point is reached cannot be seen in advance, but at some point, it will be, and that's what we pay subs for, to let the negotiators decide that on balance the agreement is worth endorsing and presenting to the membership. Then that's when you make your decision to continue the fight or accept that its the best offer we are likely to get.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

They want agency staff to become the norm for all of us not just HGV as their whole idea is a transient workforce where we come and go especially before 2 years and contract extensions the whole thing is down to the government and RM are just taking advantage of us all and the law which they are very good at!

Royal mail actually offers better than the law allows. They make casuals/temps permanent after 2 years (albeit within conditions) when the law demands permanent status after 4 years.

[k979aaa]

They want agency staff to become the norm for all of us not just HGV as their whole idea is a transient workforce where we come and go especially before 2 years and contract extensions the whole thing is down to the government and RM are just taking advantage of us all and the law which they are very good at!

Royal mail actually offers better than the law allows. They make casuals/temps permanent after 2 years (albeit within conditions) when the law demands permanent status after 4 years.

Will concede the last point but why don't they offer up the time which they have worked up to holiday entitlement or given vacancy's full time job's but alas they don't I really feel for those who have done the hard yards and not been made up after 8 years or more and then there is the pensions issue for those who after 2010 did not get a proper pension and they deserve one because they do the same job as a full timer. But certain part timers have better pensions than most postmen/women and a lot of them don't work damn near as hard but this is the world in which we live in!

[Alexei]

When that point is reached cannot be seen in advance, but at some point, it will be, and that's what we pay subs for, to let the negotiators decide that on balance the agreement is worth endorsing and presenting to the membership. Then that's when you make your decision to continue the fight or accept that its the best offer we are likely to get.

So eventually there will be middle ground reached, with a proposal on the table. Do we then get balloted to accept or decline?

I - like every other postie on here - would love for all of the CWU's proposals to be accepted, i'm just worried on the ones that there will be no movement from RM on. I pray RM don't dangle the proverbial carrot.