The issues why you voted yes are still the same

Driver74 · Post by **Driver74** » 13 Oct 2017, 19:59

People on here complaining about the strike being called off but in reality it’s not what I see most of the staff I’ve spoken to were hoping rm got the injunction they were after there was already a lot of bad feeling about the union calling a 2 day strike

Dorset Plodder · Post by **Dorset Plodder** » 13 Oct 2017, 20:07

Driver74 wrote:People on here complaining about the strike being called off but in reality it’s not what I see most of the staff I’ve spoken to were hoping rm got the injunction they were after there was already a lot of bad feeling about the union calling a 2 day strike

What were they expecting Driver? They were voting for Industrial Action. I know a few colleagues who were worried about losing the money, but I just pointed out it's a short term loss to stop a long term loss. I suggested doing some overtime to build up some cash.

Driver74 · Post by **Driver74** » 13 Oct 2017, 20:13

Just an observation I think people voted to give the union a bit of bargaining power but I don’t think there is a lot of will to actually lose much money a few weeks of 2 day strikes plus Xmas bonus it will take a long time to get that back with a slightly better pay rise and nobody is expecting rm to put dB pension back on the table

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 13 Oct 2017, 20:28

One of the things the Judge weighs up is by awarding an interim injunction what is the detriment both parties will face. For the union the detriment is just time and for the business it is the cost of contracts.

The detriment to the union is not "just time" though. The union despite the opinion of those in comfy seats in Wimbledon is the membership and the detriment to the membership from losing the initiative in this dispute could be potentially around £4-5k every year in pension for around 65,000 members not to mention a poorer pay deal, a poorer pension for those who started after 2008, the unspoken MTSF agreement and a whole host of other terms and conditions that we may have to sacrifice now that the threat of strike action has disappeared up the swanny. Don't try to convince me that's strikes in December are a goer, I'm far too long in the tooth for that.How much detriment does that equate to over the next 20-30 years, a lot more than a lost contract or two.

Someone at HQ should be falling on their sword for this one dingo otherwise the whole thing reeks of a preplanned capitulation. Sometimes a dog that barks doesn't bite because it's been trained well. Do you honestly expect the members to believe that the union didn't see the whole mediation debacle coming? Do we even have lawyers and if we do what the f**k are we paying them for?

bexhil palace · Post by **bexhil palace** » 13 Oct 2017, 20:29

I was informed today, that some people wouldn't be going on strike in December, for fear of losing their Xmas tips.
I'm not sure some people are appreciating the severity of our situation.

Dorset Plodder · Post by **Dorset Plodder** » 13 Oct 2017, 20:47

bexhil palace wrote:I was informed today, that some people wouldn't be going on strike in December, for fear of losing their Xmas tips.
I'm not sure some people are appreciating the severity of our situation.

Wouldn't surprise me at all BH. A lot of people seem to looking for excuses not to strike. Always amazes me that some Posties seem to kiss ass all year just so they can get some tips at Christmas. I think they fail to realise that they do actually get paid to deliver the mail.

As for appreciating the situation....... I think a lot of our colleagues have very little long term vision. Add that to a very selfish outlook and it doesn't help solidarity.

redneck · Post by **redneck** » 13 Oct 2017, 21:12

You can't blame the union for having to operate within the straight jacket of Tory/New Labour legal frameworks on trade relations.

Until the powers that be change one hand is yied behind the back, but we still have a massive vote for a strike, still have a big feeling to implemnt that if needed, no need to panic.

deadbox · Post by **deadbox** » 13 Oct 2017, 21:43

Mr.CWU you've done it again

Post by **aiden01** » 13 Oct 2017, 21:52

redneck wrote:You can't blame the union for having to operate within the straight jacket of Tory/New Labour legal frameworks on trade relations.

Until the powers that be change one hand is yied behind the back, but we still have a massive vote for a strike, still have a big feeling to implemnt that if needed, no need to panic.

Remember the cwu and their legal team negotiated the afg agreement so as fishtank has said above somebody needs to be made accountable of the shambles we now find ourselves in what's the point in striking when Christmas has been and gone.

Glenno · Post by **Glenno** » 13 Oct 2017, 21:53

Was speaking to a Member today, and they said " we have been asked to rise up like lions" which we have done, a massive 89.1%
Then after the legal beagle stuff we have been told to "sit back down, like silly school kids"
Now I take this all on-board, and I can see the bigger picture, but I am concerned about the next few days until things calm down and then others can then see the bigger picture

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 13 Oct 2017, 22:44

redneck wrote:You can't blame the union for having to operate within the straight jacket of Tory/New Labour legal frameworks on trade relations.

Until the powers that be change one hand is yied behind the back, but we still have a massive vote for a strike, still have a big feeling to implemnt that if needed, no need to panic.

The injunction was nothing to do with Tory/New Labour frameworks on trade relations, the injunction was a contractual issue between the CWU and Royal Mail. Nobody is panicking, some of us just know what's coming and some don't.

Dorset Plodder · Post by **Dorset Plodder** » 13 Oct 2017, 22:50

Glenno wrote:Was speaking to a Member today, and they said " we have been asked to rise up like lions" which we have done, a massive 89.1%
Then after the legal beagle stuff we have been told to "sit back down, like silly school kids"
Now I take this all on-board, and I can see the bigger picture, but I am concerned about the next few days until things calm down and then others can then see the bigger picture

I agree. Just stay positive. Nothing has really changed. I'm surprised at how little it takes to completely demoralise some of my colleagues. Have they never been in a losing team that's gone a few points down and need to re-motivate themselves?

Post by **wacko74** » 14 Oct 2017, 06:09

aiden01 wrote:
redneck wrote:You can't blame the union for having to operate within the straight jacket of Tory/New Labour legal frameworks on trade relations.

Until the powers that be change one hand is yied behind the back, but we still have a massive vote for a strike, still have a big feeling to implemnt that if needed, no need to panic.
Remember the cwu and their legal team negotiated the afg agreement so as fishtank has said above somebody needs to be made accountable of the shambles we now find ourselves in what's the point in striking when Christmas has been and gone.

As I've said elsewhere, I really don't think Dec strikes are the be all and end all, RM will suffer just as much disruption and be put under just as much pressure from shareholders with Jan strikes...

''in fact the more I think about it the more I'm inclined to think that Jan strikes would be just as effective, if not more so, than Dec strikes...

- Posties would have chance to build up savings with all the Christmas Pressure overtime (Expecting a Christmas Pressure Work to Rule is a complete non-starter imo)

- Mail volumes are huge in Jan and pkt volumes don't exactly drop off a cliff come Jan 1st either... so just as much disruption for RM to deal with.

- A Dec strike would see RM massively win the propaganda war, both in terms of us ''giving work to our competitors'' and in portraying us to the general public
as the heartless, selfish baddies trying to ruin everyone's Christmas''.

gary1975 · Post by **gary1975** » 14 Oct 2017, 07:46

wacko74 wrote:
aiden01 wrote:
redneck wrote:You can't blame the union for having to operate within the straight jacket of Tory/New Labour legal frameworks on trade relations.

Until the powers that be change one hand is yied behind the back, but we still have a massive vote for a strike, still have a big feeling to implemnt that if needed, no need to panic.
Remember the cwu and their legal team negotiated the afg agreement so as fishtank has said above somebody needs to be made accountable of the shambles we now find ourselves in what's the point in striking when Christmas has been and gone.
As I've said elsewhere, I really don't think Dec strikes are the be all and end all, RM will suffer just as much disruption and be put under just as much pressure from shareholders with Jan strikes...

''in fact the more I think about it the more I'm inclined to think that Jan strikes would be just as effective, if not more so, than Dec strikes...

- Posties would have chance to build up savings with all the Christmas Pressure overtime (Expecting a Christmas Pressure Work to Rule is a complete non-starter imo)

- Mail volumes are huge in Jan and pkt volumes don't exactly drop off a cliff come Jan 1st either... so just as much disruption for RM to deal with.

- A Dec strike would see RM massively win the propaganda war, both in terms of us ''giving work to our competitors'' and in portraying us to the general public
as the heartless, selfish baddies trying to ruin everyone's Christmas''.

I agree with overtime in December plus xmas bonus there is no reason or excuse why we can't have a all out for a full week in January

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 14 Oct 2017, 08:16

JKSmudge wrote:It would be nice if the union leaders put their hands up and admitted they completely screwed up by not checking the small print.

It isn't even "small print".
It is written large. Maybe a braille version would have helped?