Royal Mail injunction plans

[dubdaz]

What a suprise, judge backs Royal Mail not the workers :-(

[Lounge Lizard]

What happens if some of us don't hear of the injunction and go on strike for the two days next week ?

[LouBarlow]

Oh bollocks fancied friday off, so watched the cwu video and we cant strike for another 7 weeks which brings us right up to christmas .

If you think we will be striking before Christmas you are deluded. It's Friday tomorrow so they won't even think about sitting down to agree on a mediator till next week, which will then take as long as RM can drag it out for, as they have to both agree, then the 5 weeks of talks, then two weeks notice. It's not going to happen.

The union should have balloted for action two bloody months ago, when there was as much enthusiasm to walk as there is now, but no, they had to waste time and money travelling around the country unnecessarily when members were prepared months ago to take action.

[wannabeek]

They can easily drag it out to beyond xmas.

Temporarily mislay a vital bit of paperwork; some crucial advisor falls poorly on a day required; take a whole day to argue an irrelevant point.

Whatever - these are people who are quite prepared to fight dirty. I think we we always be powerless while we play by RM's twisted perception of the rules.

[k979aaa]

What happens if some of us don't hear of the injunction and go on strike for the two days next week ?

Would be classed as an absence depending what you said when they contact you or when you came back and asked you why you were off you could be sacked so I would advise DOING THE JOB PROPERLY just start and finish at your contracted hours.

[LaggyBand]

Someone tell me that I'm wrong (and why) if I now think any deal put forward by RM will have to be justified by CWU as being unreasonable to ACAS rather than just waiving it away..?

Your wrong

But to answer. ACAS will be a go-between and a facilitator they will make no judgement on whether the deal is a good one or not.

Or as they put it:

Acas is an independent and impartial third party, whose role is not to direct either party on what to do; but to help them develop options and solutions to resolve the dispute.

I really hope it plays out like that, but how about this:

1. One party says "we're going to shaft you";

2. The other party says "we don't want to be shafted"

3. The third party help develop options and solutions so that only "a little bit of shafting" goes on..

[k979aaa]

Someone tell me that I'm wrong (and why) if I now think any deal put forward by RM will have to be justified by CWU as being unreasonable to ACAS rather than just waiving it away..?

Your wrong

But to answer. ACAS will be a go-between and a facilitator they will make no judgement on whether the deal is a good one or not.

Or as they put it:

Acas is an independent and impartial third party, whose role is not to direct either party on what to do; but to help them develop options and solutions to resolve the dispute.

I really hope it plays out like that, but how about this:

1. One party says "we're going to shaft you";

2. The other party says "we don't want to be shafted"

3. The third party help develop options and solutions so that only "a little bit of shafting" goes on..

Is this a mine shaft or a big pole with no grease on it the mind boggles the best idea is not to get shafted in the first place.

[tommyrep]

Well, just as expected RM have plans to fight the CWU ballot result, saying they/we are in breach of the way forward- legally binding agreement of 2013. They caim we should be "talking", " using mediators etc to resolve our differences etc.
Call me a profit of doom but we all know how High court Judges feel about trade unions from past history.
I fear, along the path RM always had this card up their sleeve to delay industrial action in the approach to xmas pressure.
I also hear Terry Pullenger saying they have been trying to talk/negotiate for 18 months with no progress and RM have been in breach of many, way forward agreements- legally bound terms ! It beggars a simple question, if RM were in breach of legally binding terms of that agreement WHY did we (CWU) not approach the courts to expose those breaches at that time ?? For the benefits that were in that agreement for its members ? Why were they not pursued in court ?
Our PT members terms, for more/improved holiday payments, increase in hours etc, for example have been blatantly ignored. WHY have we allowed RM breaches of the WFA to go unchallenged ?
I am very apprehensive now, we gave a huge mandate from the members and fear that that faith in thinking we were doing things by the book may be scuppered by RMs clever legal eagles.
How absurd that after those long projected negotiations/meetings, we find ourselves breaking the law ! if we take strike action. If that is the case we are really NO better than slaves to be abused at the whim of RM. The only tool any worker has in dispute with a despicable employer is to remove their obligation to work under duress for them, i.e. "go on strike".
Does that make me a criminal ? The very thought of it makes me sick. Unfortunately our Union has a failed history in signing poor agreements, they seem watertight until RM start dismantling them piece by piece to THEIR advantage and our loss.
Only my own thoughts - I have always been a pessimist! What do you think ? ( about RMs challenge, not my failings)!

Well folks, this is my original post that initiated this thread and some good debate !
But hey ho, my prophesy of doom was not been too far misplaced on reflection.
RM could easily ask " why did you not raise all these breaches with the courts as they occurred ? Mr CWU !
It may/can and could be construed as agreeing , happy with or not even worthy of complaint !
By not challenging RMs abhorrent behaviour over the last 18 months - they can be seen as " acceptance" !
By that I mean why did you not report/ raise complaint via the courts of RMs breaching of agreements ?
We have played the good guy against seasoned hard line bas...ds ! who know the true benefit of the courts when push comes to shove and have NO fear of using it to their advantage and more importantly their shareholders - the CWU need to learn this lesson. If we do not get "savvy" soon RM with brighter legal eagles will rip us up for arse paper. It is quite embarrassing. We have signed and agreed such poor deals in the past, the 2013 way forward agreement contains so much bias towards RM it is incredible any Union put pen to paper under such terms, and as for "flexibility", this proved to be an enormous error on our part. We took a stick to our own backs. RM have used and abused us in the most viscious way and caused a lot of grief within delivery. Part timers have been shafted rotten, in effect our Union have let us down badly in the past, hence my prophet of doom and pessimist views have an element of historical hindsight !!!

[wandle]

If this was a 'resounding victory' for Royal Mail, as some seem to think, surely the share price would have shot up ? A rise of 1.8p tells me the City does not believe this is resoloved. Far from it, in fact

[LouBarlow]

If this was a 'resounding victory' for Royal Mail, as some seem to think, surely the share price would have shot up ? A rise of 1.8p tells me the City does not believe this is resoloved. Far from it, in fact

Wasn't it pretty much closed by the time the ruling was announced? Keep an eye out today to see.

[wacko74]

If this was a 'resounding victory' for Royal Mail, as some seem to think, surely the share price would have shot up ? A rise of 1.8p tells me the City does not believe this is resoloved. Far from it, in fact

Wasn't it pretty much closed by the time the ruling was announced? Keep an eye out today to see.

Well if this is classed as a ''resounding victory'' for RM and the SP does shoot up today then the City must be pretty thick if they can't see this for what it really is... nothing but a desperate stalling tactic.

[wandle]

Well if this is classed as a ''resounding victory'' for RM and the SP does shoot up today then the City must be pretty thick if they can't see this for what it really is... nothing but a desperate stalling tactic.

My point exactly. Which is why the share price barely moved. If those in the City thought this was anything other than a mere delay, and that one or other side had 'won' the battle, you would have seen a much bigger movement in the share price

[toomuchcoke]

The most obvious delay-tactic is for RM to refuse all ACAS mediator proposals put forward by CWU, unless there are clauses in the AFG document or from today's court case that give a definitive timeframe for getting a group of acceptable mediators together, so mediation can start.

Since the RM obtained their injunction on the grounds that there hadn't been a mediation process, if they where then to turn around and proceed to stall, block and delay at every possible opportunity to delay the start of said mediation then it's possible[1] that the CWU would have grounds to return to court requesting that the injunction be overturned. (And it's also possible that said court appearance could result in the RM being found guilty of contempt of court.)

[1] Disclaimer : I am not a lawyer!

[fishtank]

Royal Mail have made it clear they intend to stall the process in their comms today. Even the process of choosing a mediator gives them the opportunity to stall the process and there's little the union can do. I said 4 years ago we had signed up to a "no strike agreement" in all but words ( you can search the archives if you're really bored ) and was ridiculed by some on here but sadly that's exactly what we did.

This is how it will now play out.
The union will talk the talk and pretend that strikes at Christmas are a real threat even though any of us who've been here any length of time know that we've never had a strike in December and never will.

At some point in the next 4-5 weeks there will be an an announcement that a real breakthrough has been made and the now infamous "talks extended for another 1-2 weeks" will appear on this forum.

About two weeks later deal of the century 3 will be trumpeted as the best thing since sliced bread and even though our pension is screwed and well be trialling this, that and the next thing it's all good because we've managed to get the pay deal consolidated into basic pay, a 3.30 last letter for "most" of you guys although probably not the new starts and guess what, we've got RM to sign up to another 3 years of legally binding agreements. Sorry about the pension blah blah what can you do, by the way here's £400 lump sum just before Christmas.

The PEC endorses the deal on the basis that it was " the best deal on the table".

The members accept the deal because at the end of the day they know what up s**t creek feels like.

We spend the next 3 years complaining about said deal on here.

I really wish I was wrong but.....

[cloherty1976]

Royal Mail have made it clear they intend to stall the process in their comms today. Even the process of choosing a mediator gives them the opportunity to stall the process and there's little the union can do. I said 4 years ago we had signed up to a "no strike agreement" in all but words ( you can search the archives if you're really bored ) and was ridiculed by some on here but sadly that's exactly what we did.

This is how it will now play out.
The union will talk the talk and pretend that strikes at Christmas are a real threat even though any of us who've been here any length of time know that we've never had a strike in December and never will.

At some point in the next 4-5 weeks there will be an an announcement that a real breakthrough has been made and the now infamous "talks extended for another 1-2 weeks" will appear on this forum.

About two weeks later deal of the century 3 will be trumpeted as the best thing since sliced bread and even though our pension is screwed and well be trialling this, that and the next thing it's all good because we've managed to get the pay deal consolidated into basic pay, a 3.30 last letter for "most" of you guys although probably not the new starts and guess what, we've got RM to sign up to another 3 years of legally binding agreements. Sorry about the pension blah blah what can you do, by the way here's £400 lump sum just before Christmas.

The PEC endorses the deal on the basis that it was " the best deal on the table".

The members accept the deal because at the end of the day they know what up s**t creek feels like.

We spend the next 3 years complaining about said deal on here.

I really wish I was wrong but.....

This is what I expected would happen and if true it's just the same old story.
You forgot something rise in subs