k979aaa wrote:Let's get the facts right here as you all know Royal Mail have broken all these agreements by imposition and abrogating their end of the deal as such we cannot do anything till we had a vote and that vote was for our democratically elected union which held that vote scrutinised by an independent organisation the vote was as follows 111,082 entitled to vote number of papers returned 81,886 the question was on the ballot paper "Are you prepared to take part in strike action?" spoilt votes 55 number of votes cast in ballot 81,831
Turnout 73.4%
YES 72,877 or 89.1%
NO 8954 or 10.9%
The ERS was satisfied this was a fair and reasonable vote.
Now we get to the bits about jumping though hurdles about the last agreement the last agreement has been broken by closing the Defined Benefit pension scheme not only that but closure of offices up and down the nation without agreement the failure of any consultation about all this and future for growing the business is more like decimating the business for the fat cats and their bonuses!
Was one of my points, WHY when RM have blatantly flouted the terms of many agreements have WE - CWU never challenged them on " legally binding" terms of an agreement. Why, why ?
RM are famed for their dirty tactics as we have seen with their latest propaganda mailshots, we know how the operate.
We should have taken them to task on THEIR breaches.
fishtank wrote:I think even Royal Mail are smart enough to know that an injunction won't make this dispute go away and you can't deliver Christmas with lawyers.
The last thing RM want is a s**t load of uncontrollable local disputes. They've had a left hook to the chin and they're desperately throwing punches hoping to stay on their feet to the bell but if they're not careful they're going to walk right into an uppercut.
They are poking a dog with a stick
A dog that is already growling
If you tolerate this, then your paid break will be next
k979aaa wrote:Let's get the facts right here as you all know Royal Mail have broken all these agreements by imposition and abrogating their end of the deal as such we cannot do anything till we had a vote and that vote was for our democratically elected union which held that vote scrutinised by an independent organisation the vote was as follows 111,082 entitled to vote number of papers returned 81,886 the question was on the ballot paper "Are you prepared to take part in strike action?" spoilt votes 55 number of votes cast in ballot 81,831
Turnout 73.4%
YES 72,877 or 89.1%
NO 8954 or 10.9%
The ERS was satisfied this was a fair and reasonable vote.
Now we get to the bits about jumping though hurdles about the last agreement the last agreement has been broken by closing the Defined Benefit pension scheme not only that but closure of offices up and down the nation without agreement the failure of any consultation about all this and future for growing the business is more like decimating the business for the fat cats and their bonuses!
The defined pension hasn't been closed. Surely it's open till march 2018. Closure and notice are different in my book.
And if I was threatening you what recourse would you use and don't give me mediation they don't want to talk the law that's why we balloted the broken agreements go beyond the mention of the DB scheme!
Agreements are written by both sides. If you are going to tell me not then I think one party should not sign.
Both parties would have had legal representation for this. Well please tell me they did..
fishtank wrote:I think even Royal Mail are smart enough to know that an injunction won't make this dispute go away and you can't deliver Christmas with lawyers.
The last thing RM want is a s**t load of uncontrollable local disputes. They've had a left hook to the chin and they're desperately throwing punches hoping to stay on their feet to the bell but if they're not careful they're going to walk right into an uppercut.
The old timers in my gang are going to love it when I tell them the new plan is to actually get physical.
Edit: seriously though, the plan may be to use lawyers to alter our perception, in order that *we* deliver Christmas. On a crappy deal.
I can't believe that a lot of you have no faith in the legal lawyers the union use.
Royal Mail managers.....about as popular as a t.urd in a swimming pool!
The DDA/Equality Act demands action,NOT words......adjustments NOT Occupational Health referrals.Case No:2505901/09
Royal Mail is an Equal Opportunities Employer..It discriminates against everybody.
k979aaa wrote:Let's get the facts right here as you all know Royal Mail have broken all these agreements by imposition and abrogating their end of the deal as such we cannot do anything till we had a vote and that vote was for our democratically elected union which held that vote scrutinised by an independent organisation the vote was as follows 111,082 entitled to vote number of papers returned 81,886 the question was on the ballot paper "Are you prepared to take part in strike action?" spoilt votes 55 number of votes cast in ballot 81,831
Turnout 73.4%
YES 72,877 or 89.1%
NO 8954 or 10.9%
The ERS was satisfied this was a fair and reasonable vote.
Now we get to the bits about jumping though hurdles about the last agreement the last agreement has been broken by closing the Defined Benefit pension scheme not only that but closure of offices up and down the nation without agreement the failure of any consultation about all this and future for growing the business is more like decimating the business for the fat cats and their bonuses!
Was one of my points, WHY when RM have blatantly flouted the terms of many agreements have WE - CWU never challenged them on " legally binding" terms of an agreement. Why, why ?
RM are famed for their dirty tactics as we have seen with their latest propaganda mailshots, we know how the operate.
We should have taken them to task on THEIR breaches.
You cannot make employers turn up for a meeting be that at ACSS or anywhere never mind abide by passed agreements once an agreement has been breached it is like a dam you cannot fix it whilst the water still courses through it. And even if we got a verbal agreement who is to say they will not break it again just like they did with the 2010 agreement this is like a divorce where one party ie ROYAL MAIL are in denial of cheating and stealing and slander and will not even talk with us they just want what is left of the skin on our backs!
Royal Mail was always going to try and get an injunction whether it was on external mediation or the other things they are mentioning.
The CWU will contest the injunction on Monday which includes damages from the union on loss of contracts etc on the grounds there have been 18 months of talks , we have used Peter Harwood the ex Head of ACAS and Royal Mail wrote too the union saying they did not use ACAS. However Royal Mail are claiming it is not strictly the same as the process in the AFG Agreement.
What is clear is that using the courts will mean they lose the workforce even more and the reality there will be more flashpoint in offices.
If they get the injunction than mediation will have too take place and potentially the earliest we can take legal strike action is mid December if mediation failed.
The important now is too keep together , there is not a no strike deal even Royal Mail’s injunction accepts following mediation there can be strike action.
mark.cup wrote:And if that does happen we need to hit them even harder and mess up xmas big time! Let's all stay at home with our families getting fat and merry
And then once you've got all fat and merry you can take a trip down to the job centre having ruined the company. The attitudes of many people on this forum astounds me.
mark.cup wrote:And if that does happen we need to hit them even harder and mess up xmas big time! Let's all stay at home with our families getting fat and merry
And then once you've got all fat and merry you can take a trip down to the job centre having ruined the company. The attitudes of many people on this forum astounds me.
and the attitudes of people like you astounds me even more!! it is MANAGEMENT that will ruin this company. and all you lot that backed them and turned away from the union. we are trying to save it.
cloherty1976 wrote:
The defined pension hasn't been closed. Surely it's open till march 2018. Closure and notice are different in my book.
7.1 The Employer shall be entitled to notify the CWU at any time that any of the Protections will no longer continue, if any of the following exceptional circumstances apply:
c) in the event that the Employer believes on reasonable grounds that any part of the business to which a Protection applies has ceased to be, or is likely to cease being, financially sustainable;
I don't see how closing the DB scheme is a breach of any agreement. The CWU didn't appear to disagree with the closure, just the replacement schemes.
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
mark.cup wrote:And if that does happen we need to hit them even harder and mess up xmas big time! Let's all stay at home with our families getting fat and merry
And then once you've got all fat and merry you can take a trip down to the job centre having ruined the company. The attitudes of many people on this forum astounds me.
and the attitudes of people like you astounds me even more!! it is MANAGEMENT that will ruin this company. and all you lot that backed them and turned away from the union. we are trying to save it.
