jetblack wrote:clashcityrocker wrote:...
You said I was anti democratic and a fascist. I asked you to qualify that statement. You haven't - rather you've launched another gratuitous attack without foundation. I mean - who are you exactly to tell me that I lack compassion ? Why ? Cos I don't want to give a strikebreaker a big hug. And that makes me a 'prig' ?
Let me try another approach and lets see if you can comment on this without personal attack.
The union could be seen as a conglomeration of relations between people who have a common goal. In some ways we might compare it to a marriage - the point being that when you enter into the relationship/contract/marriage there are certain rules/vows - and you relinquish your own selfish desires for the betterment of the family unit/union.
Lets say that Mrs. Jetblack shows no faith in me and has an affair outside of marriage. If this were to occur I would boot Mrs. JB out the door if I ever found out. You clearly wouldn't. You would scratch your head for a few months wondering what you did wrong and try to treat her better in the future in the hope that she doesn't stray again. Oh, and you'd talk. Good for you - you are a better man than me. More compassionate etc.
However - Mrs JB holds exactly the same view as myself. That is, if I were ever to break the marriage vow no amount of heartfelt hugs would stop her from booting me out the door. There would be no second chances. I do not begrudge her this stance - I completely concur.
The important bit is that it is precisely those attitudes to infidelity that help keep us on the straight and narrow. That, and love. We are happy - we work well together. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. It is the knowledge that there would be real repercussions to our actions that circumscribe (for want of a better word) our decisions.
What you are arguing for isn't democracy at all - its a free for all. Fishtank upthread compared it to US style alt right libertarianism. I know what he's saying and he's right - but I'd more compare it to an anarchist jungle.
The war of all against all. Thomas Hobbes talked about it in Leviathon.
There must be rules and those rules must be upheld. It comes over to you like I'm being heartless and cold, that I lack compassion - its not that at all. I can see whats necessary in this situation re. strikebreakers, and that is that they should be expelled from the union. I don't think that you are seeing the problem clearly TBH - and thats why we are in the bizarre situation whereby you are choosing to attack me rather than a strikebreaker. Thats been the story of the left for the last 40 years - so I suppose it shouldn't surprise me. Internal feuding rather than coming together against our real opponents.
I don't like to give too much away about my i.d. online but I'll tell you this much. I was born and brought up in a pit village. My ancestors were all miners going back as far as I have been able to trace to the 1850's. I would have been one too no doubt were it not for the fact that Thatcher laid waste to industrial Britain. I witnessed first hand the 1984 miners strike and its effects. I witnessed people struggling financially alright - and it wasn't the 'strikebreakers' - it was the striking miners who were fighting to keep communities alive, who believed in something bigger than just 'me, me ,me'.
The strikebreakers in that dispute thought
their jobs were safe - so they sold their fellow workers down the river. They were wrong of course - theyultimately lost their jobs as well - just like the NUM told them they would. But they thought they'd be alright jack. They thought they knew better.
They didn't - what their actions did ensure was that this country would be enslaved to neo-liberalism for a generation and that their very own communities would become hotbeds of crime and drug abuse. The damage that the actions of these selfish idiots brought about has been immense - not only for themselves but for the whole country. And you want me to have a cup of tea with them and talk it through.
This isn't a game of sudoku - this is very serious stuff. This is our lives, this goes to the core of all that we hold dear, our beliefs, who we are. Sorry if I feel strongly about it - but TBH I wish that one or two more of you felt a bit more passionate about these things, particularly if you hold a position within the union. Or is the union for you some sort of social club ? What is it going to take to bring it home to you ?
Anyhow, its a shame you wouldn't want to stand with me on a picket line Clash. I'm a decent bloke - you know, I believe in stuff, more than just 'I'll do as I please'. I guarantee you this - I won't be the one bangin' your wife behind your back and making a cuckold of your forgiving arse .
But I suppose if I'm being honest I wouldn't really want to stand with you either. And until you can qualify what it is in what I've just wrote (and wrote previously) that makes me a fascist and undemocratic this is only going to end in divorce old son.
“, wouldn’t understand but you and I well know that time doesn’t heal and memories don’t fade.