I agree with all of RM's proposals bar 1

[jetblack]

What the f**k did I just read

I'll put it simply for you - very simply. I can see how words of more than two syllables might pose a problem for you.

The long and short of it is this :- Make a mug of me once, shame on you. Make a mug of me twice, shame on me.

Do you understand that ? Do we need an interpreter ? Is that too abstract for you ?

To be fair, I know others are still trying to have a dialogue with you - but I'm not. This discussion, for me at least, is now taking place in spite of you, without you. You have merely served to highlight a problem.
Your job here has been done. Not that we really needed for you to highlight the problem - we all know people like you exist but sometimes its easier not to talk about it.

Hey, that doesn't mean, if you hang around, that you mightn't be able to pick something up, learn something.

[UrbanPirate]

What the f**k did I just read :crazy:

I'll put it simply for you - very simply. I can see how words of more than two syllables might pose a problem for you.

The long and short of it is this :- Make a mug of me once, shame on you. Make a mug of me twice, shame on me.

Do you understand that ? Do we need an interpreter ? Is that too abstract for you ?

To be fair, I know others are still trying to have a dialogue with you - but I'm not. This discussion, for me at least, is now taking place in spite of you, without you. You have merely served to highlight a problem.
Your job here has been done. Not that we really needed for you to highlight the problem - we all know people like you exist but sometimes its easier not to talk about it.

Hey, that doesn't mean, if you hang around, that you mightn't be able to pick something up, learn something.

Mate, you are talking absolute nonsense. It appears the only way you are able to communicate is with analogy and hyperbole. False analogy at that!

[Glenno]

Maybe this maybe that, what I do know that he has tried to create a divide & conquer attitude, with only about 50 posts to his name this person does not fully understand what is fully involved, reading his posts ( cherry picker comes to mind ) that is his choice to not recognise the massive " YES VOTE " that is imminent and quite rightly time will tell, I have seen these people come and go throughout my time but the Union still holds firm, choices, give some people too much choices and they think they are in a candy store

[UrbanPirate]

Maybe this maybe that, what I do know that he has tried to create a divide & conquer attitude, with only about 50 posts to his name this person does not fully understand what is fully involved, reading his posts ( cherry picker comes to mind ) that is his choice to not recognise the massive " YES VOTE " that is imminent and quite rightly time will tell, I have seen these people come and go throughout my time but the Union still holds firm, choices, give some people too much choices and they think they are in a candy store
:wave :wave

if you read my posts I think you would know that I believe a big yes vote will be returned. Infact, Purely by counting the amount of posts that I have made on a forum it is literally imposable for you to gauge the level of my knowledge. Plus, yet more analogy. What is it with you guys.

[tpost]

Maybe this maybe that, what I do know that he has tried to create a divide & conquer attitude, with only about 50 posts to his name this person does not fully understand what is fully involved, reading his posts ( cherry picker comes to mind ) that is his choice to not recognise the massive " YES VOTE " that is imminent and quite rightly time will tell, I have seen these people come and go throughout my time but the Union still holds firm, choices, give some people too much choices and they think they are in a candy store

if you read my posts I think you would know that I believe a big yes vote will be returned. Infact, Purely by counting the amount of posts that I have made on a forum it is literally imposable for you to gauge the level of my knowledge. Plus, yet more analogy. What is it with you guys.

Perhaps deep down they know you may be right.

[Danelectro]

Perhaps deep down they know you may be right.

Perhaps repeating it's 2017! seems like the dogma of a coward.

Perhaps people remember bailing out the banks and pulling their belts in didn't clear the deficit by 2015

Perhaps accepting below inflation wage rises and increased reliance on credit has f****d the economy.

Perhaps the society Capitalism imagined in the 70's of automation and robots leading to a shorter working week is more appealing than accepting pension poverty (it's 2017!) as a reasonable offer.

Perhaps delivering 15 billion letters under regulations where RM is the host and is forced to feed parasites profits while incurring losses which then leads to calls for the costs to be externalised on the employee through reduced sick pay and exploitation of PT staff is not competition.

[tpost]

Perhaps deep down they know you may be right.

Perhaps repeating it's 2017! seems like the dogma of a coward.

Perhaps people remember bailing out the banks and pulling their belts in didn't clear the deficit by 2015

Perhaps accepting below inflation wage rises and increased reliance on credit has f****d the economy.

Perhaps the society Capitalism imagined in the 70's of automation and robots leading to a shorter working week is more appealing than accepting pension poverty (it's 2017!) as a reasonable offer.

Perhaps delivering 15 billion letters under regulations where RM is the host and is forced to feed parasites profits while incurring losses which then leads to calls for the costs to be externalised on the employee through reduced sick pay and exploitation of PT staff is not competition.

Perhaps, but urbanpirate has the right to a different view which is obviously not accepted on this forum. People need to get it out of their heads about it being a fight about political views but a dispute with a now private company who wants to make as much money for shareholders. You talk about cowards but the miners were not cowards, but being brave did them no good. I have been on strike many times and you can bet that there will be no victory but some sort of compromise which many on here will not like.

[UrbanPirate]

Thats what I seem to be getting. People seem to think it's the beginning of the revolution. Where as most of the country couldn't give a s**t. This is a private company, which we do not own (A big misnomer on this forum), which people seem to bemoan the fact they are all about profit. It is totally rational for a company to maximise profits. Its for us and them to come up with a workable compromise. Which people seem completely against. Which is why the strikes will fail. The changes will be pushed through. We are all replaceable. Its like people think we are a workforce of rocket scientist. In reality just a bunch of really bitter backward looking people stuffing paper through doors who are completely over playing their hand. You are all living in the past.

Oh and as for being a coward. The complete opposite. A coward doesn't face the crowd and tell them they are wrong and a coward doesn't cross the picket for what they believe to be correct.

[UrbanPirate]

Thats what I seem to be getting. People seem to think it's the beginning of the revolution. Where as most of the country couldn't give a s**t. This is a private company, which we do not own (A big misnomer on this forum), which people seem to bemoan the fact they are all about profit. It is totally rational for a company to maximise profits. Its for us and them to come up with a workable compromise. Which people seem completely against. Which is why the strikes will fail. The changes will be pushed through. We are all replaceable. Its like people think we are a workforce of rocket scientist. In reality just a bunch of really bitter backward looking people stuffing paper through doors who are completely over playing their hand. You are all living in the past.

I will add, if people mention strikes of the past. We had much more leverage against the business in years gone by. Near total market dominance. Not the case any more im afraid.

Oh and as for being a coward. The complete opposite. A coward doesn't face the crowd and tell them they are wrong and a coward doesn't cross the picket for what they believe to be correct.

[glfp]

Thats what I seem to be getting. People seem to think it's the beginning of the revolution. Where as most of the country couldn't give a s**t. This is a private company, which we do not own (A big misnomer on this forum), which people seem to bemoan the fact they are all about profit. It is totally rational for a company to maximise profits. Its for us and them to come up with a workable compromise. Which people seem completely against. Which is why the strikes will fail. The changes will be pushed through. We are all replaceable. Its like people think we are a workforce of rocket scientist. In reality just a bunch of really bitter backward looking people stuffing paper through doors who are completely over playing their hand. You are all living in the past.

Oh and as for being a coward. The complete opposite. A coward doesn't face the crowd and tell them they are wrong and a coward doesn't cross the picket for what they believe to be correct.

At the end of the day its only a handful of people that post 90% of the replies.

The bulk of the workforce don't even know this site exists and the last thing they'd want to do after a days work is talk about RM.

People have to face facts.
Its the digital age.
Letters are becoming less and less important and will be year on year.
Take away parcels and it's a dying industry.
The pipeline will be changed - you can have a hissy fit or accept it.
Just maybe the people in middle / higher management do actually know what they are doing.
As I've said before a strike at christmas will have the most dire of consequences for the postpeople.

Illussions of grandeur - we are replaceable.
The job is very well paid for what it is - essentially shoving paper through letter boxes - knocking on doors - and using the most basic of technologies.
I would say a full time postperson on the old pension scheme is well over paid. £22k + overtime + pension - unskilled
Ambulance driver - fully trained Paramedic - starting salary 22.5K

[UrbanPirate]

Thats what I seem to be getting. People seem to think it's the beginning of the revolution. Where as most of the country couldn't give a s**t. This is a private company, which we do not own (A big misnomer on this forum), which people seem to bemoan the fact they are all about profit. It is totally rational for a company to maximise profits. Its for us and them to come up with a workable compromise. Which people seem completely against. Which is why the strikes will fail. The changes will be pushed through. We are all replaceable. Its like people think we are a workforce of rocket scientist. In reality just a bunch of really bitter backward looking people stuffing paper through doors who are completely over playing their hand. You are all living in the past.

Oh and as for being a coward. The complete opposite. A coward doesn't face the crowd and tell them they are wrong and a coward doesn't cross the picket for what they believe to be correct.

At the end of the day its only a handful of people that post 90% of the replies.

The bulk of the workforce don't even know this site exists and the last thing they'd want to do after a days work is talk about RM.

People have to face facts.
Its the digital age.
Letters are becoming less and less important and will be year on year.
Take away parcels and it's a dying industry.
The pipeline will be changed - you can have a hissy fit or accept it.
Just maybe the people in middle / higher management do actually know what they are doing.
As I've said before a strike at christmas will have the most dire of consequences for the postpeople.

Illussions of grandeur - we are replaceable.
The job is very well paid for what it is - essentially shoving paper through letter boxes - knocking on doors - and using the most basic of technologies.
I would say a full time postperson on the old pension scheme is well over paid. £22k + overtime + pension - unskilled
Ambulance driver - fully trained Paramedic - starting salary 22.5K

Very well said. :Applause :Applause :Applause

I think i sometimes forget that its only a limited audience here but I do get a sense that it does represent the general sentiment all be it quite over stated.

[BeamishStout]

Just maybe the people in middle / higher management do actually know what they are doing.

And just maybe these people have no idea what it is like in the trenches - been so long for many if indeed they were ever there in the first place. Just saying....

[glfp]

Just maybe the people in middle / higher management do actually know what they are doing.

And just maybe these people have no idea what it is like in the trenches - been so long for many if indeed they were ever there in the first place. Just saying....

They wouldn't have worked there ever.
Completely different career paths.
The idea that an executive needs to have experience delivering mail is a nonsense.
The CEO of Greggs should start off serving cheese and onion slices at the counter then.

There are so many harder jobs out there for far less money.

I guess you agree with me on most of it then to just pick that out.

Here lies the root of the issue.
People on this forum think their job is the most demanding out there - it isn't.

One thing I would say is that managers need to be managers - better trained.
Some seem completely untrained / unskilled for the job.
On very heavy days where the mail is cleared a " Thank You" goes a long way.
Most of the time they have long gone - and I'm part time and finish at 2pm - rarely see them.
Although I will add that their hands are tied with organizing the workload - should be able to decide which rounds to have on overtime /lapsing - can't because of seniority / picking of rounds.

Anyway Best Regards BeamishStout

[Tman]

POSTMAN EDIT:Pointless post and selected quoting-deleted.

[Danelectro]

Thats what I seem to be getting. People seem to think it's the beginning of the revolution. Where as most of the country couldn't give a s**t. This is a private company, which we do not own (A big misnomer on this forum), which people seem to bemoan the fact they are all about profit. It is totally rational for a company to maximise profits. Its for us and them to come up with a workable compromise. Which people seem completely against. Which is why the strikes will fail. The changes will be pushed through. We are all replaceable. Its like people think we are a workforce of rocket scientist. In reality just a bunch of really bitter backward looking people stuffing paper through doors who are completely over playing their hand. You are all living in the past.

Oh and as for being a coward. The complete opposite. A coward doesn't face the crowd and tell them they are wrong and a coward doesn't cross the picket for what they believe to be correct.

You don't have a coherent argument other than RM is a private company and they and their senior management know best but forget it's providing a public service regulated by an authority set up by government.To change regulations doesn't require a revolution but a bill and legislation.Why have HSBC,RBS etc been fined (admittedly token appeasement) for trying to do the 'natural' thing and maximise profits for their business? It's because business is part of soceity.

Why have the the providers of the USO in Germany,Belguim,France etc not introduced DSA into their network? And why did UPS (a private company!) take TNT to court over low wages and demand there should be a minimum wage for all companies operating in the German postal sector?

What you fail to understand or an unaware of is that many Capitalists argue against the privatisation of utilities and natural monopolies like RM,they also rail against the banks and corporations as amongst other things they see them as a barrier to real competition.

Centre right parties and supporters of the same economic model as the Tories and yourself in the following countries of Germany,Belguim,Portugal, Luxembourg,Sweden,Spain,New Zealand,South Korea,Finland,Ireland,Denmark still have state run Railways.Its not because their failed economic model has not urged them to do the same but because they have looked at the result in the UK and not been able to sell it to it's electorate.

The statement that nobody gives a s**t about what they get paid or worry about their job security in RM is a lie.Every one to some degree is discussing their futures in RM in my office.I have had 2 DOMs and one middle manager express support for the 4pillars campaign but if you think investors such as the government of Kuwait deserve greater returns than the 6% they receive at present on the backs of some other countries postal service and our hard work then give us an example where this has been a success,The good old USA? No nae happened,Japan? Nope privatised and taken back under government control 5 years later,Denmark? No protests in the streets,Holland nah reduced USO from 6 to 5 days a week.Ram it.