350 pound lump sum payment.

[HarryPoorer]

who is this ernishoe, sounds about as good as a royal mail shoe!
We are not voting to strike for 1 day or any days , we are asking , by voting yes, for more time for hq to consider how hardworking we are and we are worth more than what they are offering.
It has and always will be a case of US and THEM , they (doms upwards) get better conditions and pay and we get worse.
I say this on this friday lunchtime when traditionally our set of er doms pop to the nearby Wetherspoons while are battling through the early rush hour traffic, is that fair?

[ernieshoe]

vote no if you want £300 extra but then see more lapsing IMMEDIATELY more whip cracking IMMEDIATELY and terrible conditions IMMEDIATELY because the managers will be brainwashed and promised £1000's extra to get us back to work and not strike.
They will have won and we would be left thinking what should I spend my wage rise on? maybe a bottle of pepsi from the canteen ! vote YES and bear it for a few weeks , it will be great again in the end , better than a quick £300.

You all seem to think going on strike one day a week will bring you a better deal.

Has anyone though it may not ????

Really are you getting that desperate you have to think we are all idiots.

A strike does not guarantee anything and anyone who has been on strike or is contemplating doing so for the first time is, or should be aware of that.

But one thing for certain is if you don't show the strength of feeling when you think somethings is wrong then management will always try to push the issue. That's all we are doing, pushing our issues, withdrawal of Labour is the ultimate tool for anyone, and it shouldn't be used lightly and without thinking of the consequences both good and bad.

Everyone should have the courage of their convictions and decide whether they are a YES or NO based on a balanced and reasonable view of the issues and consequences. But ultimately everyone has a duty to vote.

desperate ? really.

A reasonable question.

What if ?

[fishtank]

Well ernie you and a couple of your buddies have told us how terrible it would be to vote yes but we're kind of short on details on exactly what we would gain from voting no. The pay deal on the table at the moment is s**t from where I'm looking, the changes to the pipeline looked ill-conceived, unworkable and half-assed and the whole thing reeks of a desperate attempt to wring as much profit out of the business as possible before the house of cards comes tumbling down.

So the question is what's the positive on our side from completely undermining our negotiating position, do you think they'll feel sorry for us? What's in it for me ernie, they joy of working in those cold dark wet Scottish nights until I'm 68 and then retire to toast and beans every night?

[ernieshoe]

Well ernie you and a couple of your buddies have told us how terrible it would be to vote yes but we're kind of short on details on exactly what we would gain from voting no. The pay deal on the table at the moment is s**t from where I'm looking, the changes to the pipeline looked ill-conceived, unworkable and half-assed and the whole thing reeks of a desperate attempt to wring as much profit out of the business as possible before the house of cards comes tumbling down.

So the question is what's the positive on our side from completely undermining our negotiating position, do you think they'll feel sorry for us? What's in it for me ernie, they joy of working in those cold dark wet Scottish nights until I'm 68 and then retire to toast and beans every night?

That's not answering the question. I'll elaborate.
What if the yes vote is delivered (highly likely)
One day strikes occur (highly likely)
Royal Mail dig their heels in.
Who will strike for a week at a time, a month at a time? It may come to that.

[fishtank]

Royal Mail dig their heels in.

This is the fallacy in your entire argument.
What have royal mail to gain by digging their heels in? This is a negotiation process not a schoolyard fight, The business needs buy-in from the staff to implement the huge changes it is proposing, you can't do that by force otherwise you end up with 50 unofficial walkouts per day and absolute chaos. We've seen it before with the delivery method implementation. By far the best tool to provide employee engagement is the union, without the CWUs help the business isn't going anywhere so again...Why would the business " dig its heels in"?

There are some areas where we won't gain much, pensions might be one but there's no doubt that a strong mandate from union members will make a real difference to what's on offer and protect us from the real elephant in the room senior management incompetence. I don't think there's a member of the frontline staff who has looked at these changes to the pipeline and ridiculous ideas like multi-bundling that believes they will work in reality but someone with an important job title thinks they will and as well as fighting for better pay it's also the union's job to protect us from these nutters.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

A reasonable question.

No, a reasonable question is one that doesn't assume people don't think through the consequences of their decisions.

You all seem to think going on strike one day a week will bring you a better deal.

Has anyone thought it may not ????

Now if you had worded it better, like perhaps"

"Anyone who is intending to vote yes - What do you think will happen if 1 day a week strike doesn't work"


To add - that's why Royal Mails constant barrage isn't working, it's condescending and judgemental, as was the tone of your question.

[clashcityrocker]

Royal Mail dig their heels in.

This is the fallacy in your entire argument.
What have royal mail to gain by digging their heels in?

The total annihilation of the CWU?
You are right =- this isn't a schoolyard fight. What if it is a fight to the death?

[fishtank]

As I've already pointed out the removal of the union is not in the best interests of the company, how many times have we seem posts on here bemoaning the union's apparent facilitation of the business plans of royal mail?

This is the reality of union/company relations, the last thing the company wants is a disjointed approach to the implementation of its business plan. The letter from Mike Newby alludes to this, they want changes applied across the board and to do that you need an organisation that can bring that to the table.

[Glenno]

The 2 points that really concern me about all this is the Pension & Pipeline topics, closely backed up by the Legally Binding agreement, now I accept that there has to be some hard barganing to reach an Agreement, but the point I want to raise is "what do we concede on one to reach agreement on the other" be very careful on your replies

[clashcityrocker]

but the point I want to raise is "what do we concede on one to reach agreement on the other"

I think we will maintain the Legally Binding Agreement (no outsourcing etc) and concede on the pensions and pipeline.
I think that will be the right move from a union perspective but wrong from a postman perspective.

There doesn't appear to be much discussion of the move to a 35 hour week?

[ennabee]

The biggest white elephant in the room for this year's pay talks is not about pay at all for me.
It is about signing up to a new pipeline that will be cheaper and will cost many jobs if we don't fight this.

[steve1873]

Exactly, if they want to implement a 1.5% payrise, then put it in our wages from the next wage after an agreement is reached and then backdate all our pay by the same amount. That way, the 1.5% is consolidated in to our pay going forwards. What they are suggesting is not a payrise at all.

[ernieshoe]

vote no if you want £300 extra but then see more lapsing IMMEDIATELY more whip cracking IMMEDIATELY and terrible conditions IMMEDIATELY because the managers will be brainwashed and promised £1000's extra to get us back to work and not strike.
They will have won and we would be left thinking what should I spend my wage rise on? maybe a bottle of pepsi from the canteen ! vote YES and bear it for a few weeks , it will be great again in the end , better than a quick £300.

You all seem to think going on strike one day a week will bring you a better deal.

Has anyone though it may not ????

Give it up FFS, are you Moyà in disguise

OK - I finally admit it.
You've rumbled me Whysoslow
I want a yes vote.
I want a strike over christmas.
I want the public to go against you.
I want the share price to dip.
Then I can say the strikes over christmas have cost the company dearly - in reputation and loss of contracts.
I will then have no choice but to break the company up.
I'll sell Parcelforce to DPD.
I'll sell the rest of the company to the lovely Deutche Poste / DHL.
They have a great track record running the german postal market and are experts in the parcels field.
Then my job is done and I'll fly off to Easyjet.
Best Wishes Ernie Shoe

[Spedley]

There are two outcomes, YES or NO. Yes has the potential for a decent deal, No does not.

[chrisj]

But why rush to a ballot for a strike when the employer is asking the Union to come back to the negotiating table.

This tactic of quickly going for a strike is the old way of doing things - trade union relationships with employer has changed and threats of strikes in such a competitive industry is not the best way to go.

All the talk about working till late is not even that clear; not even from the CWU - it's all hearsay. Moreover, starting a little later is not a reason for strikes, the CWU have lost the argument on pensions, we cannot argue about productivity demands when some of us regularly give away hours by starting early and some are not working the hours they get paid for.

We now have legal protections and a little give on pay rise (should not be lump some only).

A Yes vote then what - back to the table and then more give and take but in the meantime, customers not sure and the competitors are sharpening their claws because the strikes threat