Local CWU branch to recommend NO vote

[BELIAL]

SEEn that s**t before still s**t

Just because someone posts / says something you don't like doesn't give you the right to gob off. Sadly its people like you who give the likes of Billy Hayes the chance to discredit this site. Grow up

It's called an opinion ,terse and earthy i admit but still an opinion . You might find it fun to get some of your own instead of slavishly following Wards guff. Why don't you ask the mods to get all dissent wiped it clearly upsets you.
By the way there is a more detailed response on the agreement thread ,won't repeat cos Iget bored typing

[lovejoy]

SEEn that s**t before still s**t

Just because someone posts / says something you don't like doesn't give you the right to gob off. Sadly its people like you who give the likes of Billy Hayes the chance to discredit this site. Grow up

It's called an opinion ,terse and earthy i admit but still an opinion . You might find it fun to get some of your own instead of slavishly following Wards guff. Why don't you ask the mods to get all dissent wiped it clearly upsets you.
By the way there is a more detailed response on the agreement thread ,won't repeat cos Iget bored typing

I don't follow anyones guff. The vote yes/no debate is very healthy and I welcome any debate!

I saw you're reply and whilst I can see you've thought about it i'll still vote YES based on the reasons i stated earlier!

At the end of the day I'll vote yes and you'll vote no. At anytime the union needs us we'll both be on the gate though won't we!

[Paul Turnbull]

lovejoy, you said that you would vote yes on the basis of a list of names of people who were opposing the deal and that if they told you it was xmas you would check your diary.

Maybe you should not personally insult people who are exercising their democratic right to campaign for a no vote as they believe postal workers deserve better!

[BELIAL]

I will and glad to hear you will too. But once again for the fourth time I am curious ,how do you believe this deal improves our terms and conditions Can't see it myself but I do have an open mind and am more than willing to be pleasantly surprised if you can reveal something I've missed. We all like good news, could do with some

[lovejoy]

lovejoy, you said that you would vote yes on the basis of a list of names of people who were opposing the deal and that if they told you it was xmas you would check your diary.

Maybe you should not personally insult people who are exercising their democratic right to campaign for a no vote as they believe postal workers deserve better!

Maybe that was a bit harsh of me but isn't it sad that most of the people who voted no/dissented haven'y put their necks on line and thrown full weight behind campaign?

[BELIAL]

lovejoy, you said that you would vote yes on the basis of a list of names of people who were opposing the deal and that if they told you it was xmas you would check your diary.

Maybe you should not personally insult people who are exercising their democratic right to campaign for a no vote as they believe postal workers deserve better!

Maybe that was a bit harsh of me but isn't it sad that most of the people who voted no/dissented haven'y put their necks on line and thrown full weight behind campaign?

Explain????

[BELIAL]

I will and glad to hear you will too. But once again for the fourth time I am curious ,how do you believe this deal improves our terms and conditions Can't see it myself but I do have an open mind and am more than willing to be pleasantly surprised if you can reveal something I've missed. We all like good news, could do with some

Stil still still still waiting, I know it's a hard one but just one improvement then even a little one

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I will and glad to hear you will too. But once again for the fourth time I am curious ,how do you believe this deal improves our terms and conditions Can't see it myself but I do have an open mind and am more than willing to be pleasantly surprised if you can reveal something I've missed. We all like good news, could do with some

Stil still still still waiting, I know it's a hard one but just one improvement then even a little one

How about the Saturday start reverting back to before EA, Unfortunately it has to have agreement of local management but you did say small.

[BELIAL]

I will and glad to hear you will too. But once again for the fourth time I am curious ,how do you believe this deal improves our terms and conditions Can't see it myself but I do have an open mind and am more than willing to be pleasantly surprised if you can reveal something I've missed. We all like good news, could do with some

Stil still still still waiting, I know it's a hard one but just one improvement then even a little one

How about the Saturday start reverting back to before EA, Unfortunately it has to have agreement of local management but you did say small.

Hmm ,already questioned Dom on this, said he was quite happy for folks to start at 5.30 on Sat.,but had no control over inward arrival times,currently 75% of mech/coded turns up at 7.45.
So thats still start plus 30 mins and most prep after 8.00. Couple this with longs/shorts ,flexible working banked hours all dependant on local agreement looks like Sat finish at 13.30, best case ,Hope I'm wrong
Even if status quo is maintained on Sats it's still not an improvement is it

[zaphod]

Bristol are meeting tomorrow, to consider their decision.
I still maintain that a mass resignation from the CWU, even for just a month, will shake them up a little, but I agree with the sentiments about staying in. I wouldn't want to jump ship, but I fear that as a H&S Rep., I would be tarnished by a decision to accept.

Considering the strength of support for the strike in the first place, 80%+, in the Bristol area, I hope that the correct recommendation is reached - to reject - or there will be big trouble, and a lot of very angry workers here - me heading the list.

[IWW Fellow Worker]

I think a YES vote will bring about the resignation of a good many CWU reps within a very short space of time. This 'local felixibility' business is a deriliction of duty on the part of those on the PEC and the local reps will be on the receiving end of plenty of grief from the members. It's bad enough being a local CWU rep as you never feel you have the backing of the CWU at national level. A YES vote will mean local reps really will be adrift from the union. I wouldn't not be in a union, but if this abomination gets voted in I can see us losing very many members. The best thing would be a massive NO vote then we get rid of Hayes and Ward rather than lose possibly hundreds of good union men and women.

[billypants]

I will and glad to hear you will too. But once again for the fourth time I am curious ,how do you believe this deal improves our terms and conditions Can't see it myself but I do have an open mind and am more than willing to be pleasantly surprised if you can reveal something I've missed. We all like good news, could do with some

Stil still still still waiting, I know it's a hard one but just one improvement then even a little one

How about the Saturday start reverting back to before EA, Unfortunately it has to have agreement of local management but you did say small.

apparently all the doms in our area are meeting on monday to discuss this very point . . . . . it interests me as to how we can start earlier on a saturday anyway, what changes from the rest of the week, how does the mail arrive earlier . . . . also I believe this deal was only ever to get as far as a vote if ALL executive action was withdrawn, but weren't the late starts pushed in by executive action, so shouldn't they be withdrawn, completely .

[lovejoy]

I will and glad to hear you will too. But once again for the fourth time I am curious ,how do you believe this deal improves our terms and conditions Can't see it myself but I do have an open mind and am more than willing to be pleasantly surprised if you can reveal something I've missed. We all like good news, could do with some

Stil still still still waiting, I know it's a hard one but just one improvement then even a little one

How about the Saturday start reverting back to before EA, Unfortunately it has to have agreement of local management but you did say small.

Hmm ,already questioned Dom on this, said he was quite happy for folks to start at 5.30 on Sat.,but had no control over inward arrival times,currently 75% of mech/coded turns up at 7.45.
So thats still start plus 30 mins and most prep after 8.00. Couple this with longs/shorts ,flexible working banked hours all dependant on local agreement looks like Sat finish at 13.30, best case ,Hope I'm wrong
Even if status quo is maintained on Sats it's still not an improvement is it

Sorry I didn't reply earlier i've been having to catch up that thing called life for a few hours

Back to normal now ha

Firstly I will say it is very very rare you enter into a dispute to BETTER terms and conditions. Disputes (this one included) are about protecting terms and conditions.

So what have we got thats better is a hard one to answer but specifics include

Grandfather rights dated back to May 05 - Whilst many of us have stayed on the 0500 starts there have been hundreds of DOs who had already moved! These people are on MTSF payments already and would never have been expecting grandfather rights.

Th 5.4% is in my view better than 2.5%. I know you can argue that over the 12 months the value is much the same but with the 5.4% the value of any future pay rises is much greater!

Constantly LAs and MDEC workers were told they would not receive the pay rise and through united action they have now secured a pay rise

Theres a couple of things for you

As I have stated though i think disputes are about protecting things. The 'final' offer from Royal Mail stated that they wanted to
Remove MTSF
Change IR framework
Change Conduct Code
Change Attendance Procedure

All of the above would have had a much bigger affect on us than flexibility ever will and we have fought those proposals off!

Still like I say , just an opinion

[Paul Turnbull]

I will and glad to hear you will too. But once again for the fourth time I am curious ,how do you believe this deal improves our terms and conditions Can't see it myself but I do have an open mind and am more than willing to be pleasantly surprised if you can reveal something I've missed. We all like good news, could do with some

Stil still still still waiting, I know it's a hard one but just one improvement then even a little one

How about the Saturday start reverting back to before EA, Unfortunately it has to have agreement of local management but you did say small.

Hmm ,already questioned Dom on this, said he was quite happy for folks to start at 5.30 on Sat.,but had no control over inward arrival times,currently 75% of mech/coded turns up at 7.45.
So thats still start plus 30 mins and most prep after 8.00. Couple this with longs/shorts ,flexible working banked hours all dependant on local agreement looks like Sat finish at 13.30, best case ,Hope I'm wrong
Even if status quo is maintained on Sats it's still not an improvement is it

Sorry I didn't reply earlier i've been having to catch up that thing called life for a few hours

Back to normal now ha

Firstly I will say it is very very rare you enter into a dispute to BETTER terms and conditions. Disputes (this one included) are about protecting terms and conditions.

So what have we got thats better is a hard one to answer but specifics include

Grandfather rights dated back to May 05 - Whilst many of us have stayed on the 0500 starts there have been hundreds of DOs who had already moved! These people are on MTSF payments already and would never have been expecting grandfather rights.

Th 5.4% is in my view better than 2.5%. I know you can argue that over the 12 months the value is much the same but with the 5.4% the value of any future pay rises is much greater!

Constantly LAs and MDEC workers were told they would not receive the pay rise and through united action they have now secured a pay rise

Theres a couple of things for you

As I have stated though i think disputes are about protecting things. The 'final' offer from Royal Mail stated that they wanted to
Remove MTSF
Change IR framework
Change Conduct Code
Change Attendance Procedure

All of the above would have had a much bigger affect on us than flexibility ever will and we have fought those proposals off!

Still like I say , just an opinion

[Paul Turnbull]

I would like to reply to the comment made by lovejoy-''Firstly I will say it is very very rare you enter into a dispute to BETTER terms and conditions. Disputes (this one included) are about protecting terms and conditions.''

I don't seem to quite have the hang of the quote thing!

I do not know where you are coming from here - Every April we go to the employer to negotiate a pay rise to at least keep up with inflation ie to improve our pay!

It might be rare for the National Union to achieve this,for various reasons, but we certainly enter into the dispute with the aim of improving terms and conditions.