Boost for Corbyn as major trade union agrees to affiliate to Momentum

[TrueBlueTerrier]

It was meant to be tongue-in-cheek rather than an actual query.
Never mind...

Tounge in cheek with an expletive, well I live and learn.

[postslippete]

Is this Momentum all about getting the Labour Party elected??

[fishtank]

Is this Momentum all about getting the Labour Party elected??

That's the million dollar question. How big a part did they play in Corbyn's unlikely glorious defeat. Is this a true left wing resurgence, aided by the grass roots activists of momentum or an anti-May and her arrogance protest or a reaction to the clusterfuck of Brexit?

Only time will tell I suppose, probably a bit of all three but how big a part momentum played and whether they would lose more voters than they would gain if they played a bigger part is the big gamble facing Labour right now.

[NWpostie]

I disagree, if we recall Labour's disingenuousity in allowing tge belief that ALL Student debts will be paid off, anti Semetic bias, making promises they couldn't keep, suppressing dissent and this is when Corbyn as a backbencher voted against nearly every Labour resolution, none of this kind and more gentle politics bollocks.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegr ... stani/amp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And you take the Torygraph as your source of information?

It's on the BBC news as well.

While we're about it how about this.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/08/23/mp-shares ... y-6872181/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[fishtank]

Look NW we are all capable of using the internet, there's no need to parrot the same thing and then quote what is just another person's opinion ( that's why they're called opinion pieces ) every time you post, If you have an opinion yourself let it stand or fall on its own.

[NWpostie]

Are we getting tetchy ?

I got challenged by Baldrick, as he questioned the value of my opinion. I responded, isn't that what debate is about ?
If the truth is a bit too uncomfortable sometimes its neccesary to do so, silencing dissent and threatening Labour MPs with deselection for daring to opposite Saint Corbyn's politically correct orthodoxy, which isn't a thought crime and is no way to conduct party business.

[baldrick]

I got challenged by Baldrick, as he questioned the value of my opinion. I responded, isn't that what debate is about ?

I challenged your opinion because it is based on politically biased media articles. Anyone can repost media pieces which support their views.
My opinion is based on my experience of being a relatively active member of the Labour Party. You aren't a LP member and don't know what is going on inside the LP.
I don't know what your reposting of Naz Shah's retracted tweet has got to do with Momentum.

As for MP selection, all MPs are subject to reselection at midpoint between General Elections. If there is a change to Constituency boundaries, as is being proposed by the Government there is a reselection process. Obviously if two former constituencies are merged both the former MPS can't be the MP for one constituency. An MP is in an elected role, it's not a guaranteed 'job for life' to which they have some sort of perpetual entitlement. It is up to all local CLP members to make that selection, not Momentum members, or Telegraph readers..

[baldrick]

Is this Momentum all about getting the Labour Party elected??

Yes obviously they want a Labour Government. But they believe that the way to get a Labour Government is to have more progressive policies which improve the conditions of the majority of working people, not for the benefit of big business and the richest 1%.

Momentum support Corbyn's policies to renationalise Royal Mail, repeal Tory anti-union laws, and end austerity cuts. That is presumably why the CWU National Executive Committee are recommending support. The CWU supports those policies too. Policies decided by Annual Conference delegates elected from CWU Branches.

[NWpostie]

I got challenged by Baldrick, as he questioned the value of my opinion. I responded, isn't that what debate is about ?

I challenged your opinion because it is based on politically biased media articles. Anyone can repost media pieces which support their views.
My opinion is based on my experience of being a relatively active member of the Labour Party. You aren't a LP member and don't know what is going on inside the LP.
I don't know what your reposting of Naz Shah's retracted tweet has got to do with Momentum.

As for MP selection, all MPs are subject to reselection at midpoint between General Elections. If there is a change to Constituency boundaries, as is being proposed by the Government there is a reselection process. Obviously if two former constituencies are merged both the former MPS can't be the MP for one constituency. An MP is in an elected role, it's not a guaranteed 'job for life' to which they have some sort of perpetual entitlement. It is up to all local CLP members to make that selection, not Momentum members, or Telegraph readers..

What it's got to do with Momentum is that it's part of whole culture the current leadership. These incidents did happen, Momentum is going to push their agenda by fair means or foul, they will put their preferred candidates in over current incumbent.

My definition of Corbyn is that he is a student Revolutionary that never grew up.

[baldrick]

Momentum is going to push their agenda by fair means or foul, they will put their preferred candidates in over current incumbent.

And how do you imagine they can do that? Labour candidates are selected by all the LP members in that constituency, not by Momentum who are a minority of the total membership.

[baldrick]

My definition of Corbyn is that he is a student Revolutionary that never grew up.

And as with most of your opinions on Corbyn and Labour it is utter nonsense.
Corbyn left school with 2 E grades at A-level. He did not got to University. He went straight into employment, first for a local paper, then as an overseas volunteer, then as a trade union organiser, before being elected as a MP. Unlike most of the right wing Labour MPs who did go to University.
And he has never been a 'Revolutionary'. He is a democratic socialist who has always been a member of the Labour Party.

[fishtank]

I wish you would stop citing "right-wing Labour MPs" baldrick, it's not a very helpful label and renders the whole left-wing/right-wing position ridiculous. Being right of Corbyn or right of momentum does not make a Labour MP right-wing in the same way that being to the left of Tony Blair does not make a Labour MP left-wing. It's this kind of faction rhetoric that is pulling the CLP to pieces. I think you'll find that all Labour MPs are politically left of centre even if some are far closer to the centre than others.

[jetblack]

''Reactionary'' then ?

[fishtank]

''Reactionary'' then ?

That would be a fair description of some...but not all.
Some want change but a different kind of change than Corbyn does.

[baldrick]

I wish you would stop citing "right-wing Labour MPs" baldrick, it's not a very helpful label and renders the whole left-wing/right-wing position ridiculous. Being right of Corbyn or right of momentum does not make a Labour MP right-wing in the same way that being to the left of Tony Blair does not make a Labour MP left-wing. It's this kind of faction rhetoric that is pulling the CLP to pieces. I think you'll find that all Labour MPs are politically left of centre even if some are far closer to the centre than others.

Well the problem is that Corbyn and those supporting him are described as 'left wing', though their politics are no more 'left' than most European democratic socialist parties. When I refer to the right wing Labour MPs I don't mean all those who might be generally to the right of him. i would regard them as centrist.
But the Labour Party has always had left and right wings. It is a broad church. Over the New Labour years the 'right wing' were in the leadership. They supported the Thatcherite monetarist policies of allowing the 'free market' to dominate economic and political direction. Blair boasted that the UK had the most repressive anti-union legislation in the democratic world, though he opposed them when Thatcher introduced them.
Where has that left working people and those at the bottom of society? It is no surprise that those who used to be core Labour supporters became cynical. Corbyn has offered a real alternative and has re-engaged with the people who should naturally support Labour.
Most of the PLP who opposed him previously, fearing they would lose their jobs, have now found they have larger majorities and are prepared to give him a chance. He has a mandate not just from LP members, but from the electorate too. OK he didn't win the snap GE in June, but perhaps if he had received more support from the PLP in the previous two years he might have. And he stands a good chance of winning the next GE.
I don't think that the CLPs are being 'pulled to pieces'. My experience in my CLP is that those who opposed Corbyn have now seen a great many more new members join and an increase of 10,000 votes in June. Though most of the new members aren't active, there were certainly a lot more involved in the GE campaigning than over the last decade when it was left to a small core of mainly councillors. The CLP members who were dubious about Corbyn are a lot more accepting of him now. We only have one person on the CLP General Committee who continues to seek to obstruct business by procedural devices and manoeuvring.
So when I refer to 'right wing MPs' or the right wing of the Labour Party I am not referring to anyone to the 'right' of Corbyn, but the hard core of 'Blairites' whose representatives received 4-5% of the vote in the LP leadership elections. Those who support the right wing groups like 'Progress' and 'Labour First', who unlike Momentum are seldom mentioned. If you can suggest a better way of describing them I would be interested to hear it.