Alternative Industrial Action?

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 22 Aug 2017, 19:58

snapbee wrote:If anybody believes there is any form of legal industrial action, you are mistaken. Any form of industrial action including strike, balloted or not, is illegal.

The point isn't simply that it's unlawful but that in being unlawful the employer is entitled to stop your pay rendering the whole thing pointless. If you're going to lose a day's pay you might as well do it at the gate.

sweepster70 · Post by **sweepster70** » 22 Aug 2017, 20:04

I disagree. It is lawful to take industrial action.
The reason you don't get paid is because you are refusing to work on that particular day.

sweepster70 · Post by **sweepster70** » 22 Aug 2017, 20:06

https://www.gov.uk/industrial-action-st ... ial-action" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Something interesting at the bottom about non Union members.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 22 Aug 2017, 20:08

fishtank wrote:
snapbee wrote:If anybody believes there is any form of legal industrial action, you are mistaken. Any form of industrial action including strike, balloted or not, is illegal.
The point isn't simply that it's unlawful but that in being unlawful the employer is entitled to stop your pay rendering the whole thing pointless. If you're going to lose a day's pay you might as well do it at the gate.

Fair point Fish - but are we really saying that RMG would withhold our wages when we are delivering all their mail ? What would the shareholders have to say about that ? Cos if they did that then no mail would subsequently be delivered, wether RM or DSA > massive loss in revenues/profits for RMG Inc.

snapbee · Post by **snapbee** » 22 Aug 2017, 20:09

I understand all the concerns, I understand the legality however, if we strike we are guaranteed to lose money, although the BBQ does sound good. If we adopt the process I suggest, they would have to kick us out and though they might, we would be in no different position but, we would hold all the aces in terms of publicity.

Again, I understand the legality but, where needs must we truly do need to stand up for ourselves and if it comes to a strike I will certainly be standing with you and not against you. However, let's continue to think outside the box and any other ideas are of course welcome.

datasaint · Post by **datasaint** » 22 Aug 2017, 20:10

Keep it simple, out is out.

snapbee · Post by **snapbee** » 22 Aug 2017, 20:16

jetblack wrote:
fishtank wrote:
snapbee wrote:If anybody believes there is any form of legal industrial action, you are mistaken. Any form of industrial action including strike, balloted or not, is illegal.
The point isn't simply that it's unlawful but that in being unlawful the employer is entitled to stop your pay rendering the whole thing pointless. If you're going to lose a day's pay you might as well do it at the gate.
Fair point Fish - but are we really saying that RMG would withhold our wages when we are delivering all their mail ? What would the shareholders have to say about that ? Cos if they did that then no mail would subsequently be delivered, wether RM or DSA > massive loss in revenues/profits for RMG Inc.

This is exactly what I'm thinking, we would still be delivering RM mail

barrychuckle · Post by **barrychuckle** » 22 Aug 2017, 20:19

With the threat of industrial action (strikes) getting ever closer. This topic proves that many will bottle it.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 22 Aug 2017, 20:25

Jet, put simply Ofcom would force Royal Mail into a corner, they would have no choice but to declare the action a breach of contract and close the doors. The could not be seen to be condoning preferential treatment for their own mail streams and therefore their own benefit.

datasaint · Post by **datasaint** » 22 Aug 2017, 20:42

barrychuckle wrote:With the threat of industrial action (strikes) getting ever closer. This topic proves that many will bottle it.

This ballot will be pivotal in the trade union movement for Britain as a whole, either stick together or wave goodbye to all your terms.

barrychuckle · Post by **barrychuckle** » 22 Aug 2017, 20:47

Very true. However if everybody who hears BooHoo I can't afford to strike in the coming weeks and months can send me £1 I will be able to retire before the clocks go back.

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 22 Aug 2017, 20:50

barrychuckle wrote:Very true. However if everybody who hears BooHoo I can't afford to strike in the coming weeks and months can send me £1 I will be able to retire before the clocks go back.

i can never understand that, in my office theyre always struggling to cover duties, if people plan ahead do some OT now then you wont have to worry about it if/when the strikes come

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 22 Aug 2017, 21:08

fishtank wrote:Jet, put simply Ofcom would force Royal Mail into a corner, they would have no choice but to declare the action a breach of contract and close the doors. The could not be seen to be condoning preferential treatment for their own mail streams and therefore their own benefit.

RMG would have a strong case against Ofcom if they imposed fines as it would not be RMG making the decision to not deliver DSA, it would be the CWU. I believe that RMG would fight that case as it is in their own interests - and likely win (should Ofcom be daft enough to bring action against RMG on those grounds).

Which leads me back to my previous point with regards union funds and the security thereof - because it would ultimately be us that face the fines.

Don't get me wrong here - I'm all for a yes vote and potentially industrial action - but I think the OP has made a valid point about possible future courses of action.

Darwinsdad · Post by **Darwinsdad** » 22 Aug 2017, 21:12

Maybe I'm being a bit náive here, but would this work? How about trying to convince every post person in every office to carry out their regular daily duties but only work their contracted hours, which would mean ((if my office is anything to go by (it seems to run on overtime)) a substantial backlog of parcels and returning letters from where people have cut off (obviously having followed correct procedure). If this was carried out say the first two weeks of December and things are then resolved the docket whores / those on low hour contracts that work over to make up will be able to mop up in the week before Xmas.

Also, I think that the union now need to start getting the message out to Joe Public to explain exactly why IA maybe an option. After all, it's the postie on the ground and not the RM/Union bigwigs that is going to get the flak if Mr+Mrs Public's snowflake (everyone is special and individual) offspring don't get their 'must have' gadget/present in time

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 22 Aug 2017, 21:36

How about trying to convince every post person in every office to carry out their regular daily duties but only work their contracted hours,

Would this include those that finish early every day? Good luck with that. When does non completion become a performance issue? What do you do if RM accuse you of a deliberate go slow and suspend you? What would stop RM bringing in casual staff to clean up any hypothetical backlog. What happens if you come in at 6.30am and find management have prepped all of yesterday's "backlog" into your frame and they send you out at 7am for a 7hr delivery? These are just some of the potential flaws in anything short of a strike.