Mails Down Mails Down blah blah

[Edward Hunter]

Most of the older delivery postman i speak to would take a mail center job at the drop of a hat. No mailcenter worker would swap the other way. Says it all really. Delivery offices are akin to asylums

[tommyrep]

Most of the older delivery postman i speak to would take a mail center job at the drop of a hat. No mailcenter worker would swap the other way. Says it all really. Delivery offices are akin to asylums

It's a young mans job now, without doubt.
Interesting point though, get all the young athletes out on delivery !
Hold back the dogs, only joking. As Mr Hunter says, who would enjoy the prospect of a job in delivery compared to a MC ?
Only a lunatic, lol.

[postslippete]

Having read through this thread and all it's replies there is one glaring point missing and that is no-one has answered eastie's question. What time factor are RM using to measure this point that they keep pushing and have done for the last 6 or so years. On this thread everyone's chucking in their observation on the "mail is down" mantra with people talking of anything from last year to 30 years ago. But RM just don't seem to be able to put a specific timescale on what they measure this against. It's nonsense to be talking about 5,10,20,30 years ago as any decent well run company would have made adjustments over this time to manage the changing face of their business. When you hear other company's talking of their footfall/profits/losses they talk of a recent time period not just an airy fairy statement that they use to batter their staff with at every turn. I, like many other members of staff at RM or any other employer don't mind putting in the extra effort or changing work practices when it's needed especially if a company is struggling but where it goes wrong is when someone (in our case RM) deceive staff on so many points that you can't separate fact from fiction and you are end up with people totally distrusting anything they are being told . It's ridiculous that no matter what question or point you raise it is just answered with "the mails down" and yet no-one can really answer against what or when.

I too would like to know how RM actually assess mail volumes. Whenever a manager uses the 'mail's down' reason for lapsing or for bullying staff into completing their duty I think its actually a very poor reason. Although the overall trend is an obvious UK downward decline in mail volumes, in some areas and at certain times, they have actually increased. On the other hand we are led to believe that packet traffic has increased, which is great news for us, but again how are we assessing the packet volumes?? There could be 300 small packets in one shroud and maybe 10 in another and the only thing I can only remember as regards counting packets is doing a packet count for just one week in the summer when we did a revision eons ago.

The only "true" figures that we have are the numbers of full-time posties that have been reduced and that our duties have got considerably bigger with additional calls both by new builds and an office revision (and this can be accurately assessed against previous walk calls when there were more duties in the office).

[lostinthepost]

To even begin to suggest that what we used to do 20+ years ago has any bearing on what we take today is laughable and shows how out of touch some of our colleagues elsewhere really are.

Yes, the volume of mail processed in a mail centre might have gone down, but to those of us who have seen the sizes of our walks doubled over the past 20 years, it certainly has not.

[LouBarlow]

The rate at which jobs have been lost is a lot steeper than any decline in letter volume. Just look at the percentages. It's just common sense to realise that having less postmen employed, means that the remaining staff are doing more work.

You also have to appreciate that regional disparity is an issue - here, we still have a massive amount of Amazon parcels to deliver. More so than ever before in fact. They don't employ their own couriers round here, so we are used as the primarily delivery firm. Removing Amazon from our office would literally half our packet count a day, especially for tracked items.

Then you have to consider call-rate. Letters have dropped, but if you are still visiting 90%+ of your calls, with one letter, and now have more calls, and you get out later because you spend more time on IPS (see the full time job cuts issue above) then declining letters have no impact on how easy the job is for the postman on the ground, especially when contending with the growth in the parcel market.

[Tman]

To even begin to suggest that what we used to do 20+ years ago has any bearing on what we take today is laughable and shows how out of touch some of our colleagues elsewhere really are.

Yes, the volume of mail processed in a mail centre might have gone down, but to those of us who have seen the sizes of our walks doubled over the past 20 years, it certainly has not.

A perfect example of the false conflation of "mail's down" with "I still work as hard" separate issues as mentioned earlier in the thread.

[DGH]

In my office, of 80 jobs that were present in 2010, 10 have been removed. That means the 70 remaining jobs are about 14% larger than they were.

Now of those 70 jobs, 6 are regularly lapsed (more get lapsed on Tuesdays, slightlyb fewer on Wednesdays).

So on Monday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday, 64 jobs are doing what 80 did before. That makes those jobs about 25% larger than they were in 2010.

Which is why it feels like mail volumes are not decreasing. Letters have fallen from about 16 billion to 12 billion (or 25%). However D2Ds have only fallen by around 10% and of course packets have increased.

Overall mail volumes have fallen but you are doing more work. RM are telling the truth about volumes but they are not explaining why it feels like they are worse.

[tommyrep]

To even begin to suggest that what we used to do 20+ years ago has any bearing on what we take today is laughable and shows how out of touch some of our colleagues elsewhere really are.

Yes, the volume of mail processed in a mail centre might have gone down, but to those of us who have seen the sizes of our walks doubled over the past 20 years, it certainly has not.

A perfect example of the false conflation of "mail's down" with "I still work as hard" separate issues as mentioned earlier in the thread.

Ok Tman.
Like a dog with a bone you are right to press the case what that eastie said in the original post, hey " mails down", he stated a fact. How silly that the likes of Millie and others dare suggest that we posties have a easier time, I repeat suggestion by her comments reasoning, inferences and/or implications. And all the others who have leapt to defend themselves as being harder worked than before even although mail volume is down. How dare them, imbeciles.
You are the stickler for PC or accuracy, you can advice or teach/correct us all on that matter. Bully for you.
Big deal. Maybe eastie can start a new thread! " is parcels up ", " I seem to have more work to do", " I cannot complete duty within allocated time" ? You could then turn your attention to the various comments expressed by others, like scolding naughty pupils in class. A fraustrated school master or just keeping the numpties in check, mmmm. Get over it.

[Tman]

Like a dog with a bone you are right to press the case what that eastie said in the original post, hey " mails down", he stated a fact.

He did, you did, we all know it, so why are you getting arsey?

How silly that the likes of Millie and others dare suggest that we posties have a easier time, I repeat suggestion by her comments by inferences or implication.

You need to take your views of Millie up with him/her directly then, but I haven't seen anyone saying posties have an easier time, although many still seem to believe that mail volumes haven't declined.. If you are a rep I hope you listen to your members better than you read what's on here.

[tommyrep]

Like a dog with a bone you are right to press the case what that eastie said in the original post, hey " mails down", he stated a fact.

He did, you did, we all know it, so why are you getting arsey?

How silly that the likes of Millie and others dare suggest that we posties have a easier time, I repeat suggestion by her comments by inferences or implication.

You need to take your views of Millie up with him/her directly then, but I haven't seen anyone saying posties have an easier time, although many still seem to believe that mail volumes haven't declined.. If you are a rep I hope you listen to your members better than you read what's on here.

i
I did challenge Millie on here on forum. It's smart arses just like you who wish to nit pick in an effort to assume some superior intellect over others. By implication there are several posters appear to have the view posties have it easier - though not all -. I always listen to what colleagues have to say, but like many posters on here they cannot see the wood for the trees, easily conned by devious management and believe all they hear and read, just like many readers of the Sun newspaper. Many are deluded, some even appear as stooges in RM courier trying to convince the masses all is rosy in the RM garden. Finding a reasoned balanced opinion is not easy - and I know I am not perfect by any means, but, I always fight on the side of fairness for all and will defend others when wrongly accused of exaggeration or laziness when it's unfounded. Amen on the subject. Let you continue stirring the sh.t pot.

[NewPostieUK]

Have they been knocking houses down?

No.

Have they been building houses?

Yes

Are there more postmen now?

No.

Are here LESS?

Yes.

I rest my case.

[ernieshoe]

Have they been knocking houses down?

No.

Have they been building houses?

Yes

Are there more postmen now?

No.

Are here LESS?

Yes.

I rest my case.

??????????????????????

[milly]

Like a dog with a bone you are right to press the case what that eastie said in the original post, hey " mails down", he stated a fact.

He did, you did, we all know it, so why are you getting arsey?

How silly that the likes of Millie and others dare suggest that we posties have a easier time, I repeat suggestion by her comments by inferences or implication.

You need to take your views of Millie up with him/her directly then, but I haven't seen anyone saying posties have an easier time, although many still seem to believe that mail volumes haven't declined.. If you are a rep I hope you listen to your members better than you read what's on here.

i
I did challenge Millie on here on forum. It's smart arses just like you who wish to nit pick in an effort to assume some superior intellect over others. By implication there are several posters appear to have the view posties have it easier - though not all -. I always listen to what colleagues have to say, but like many posters on here they cannot see the wood for the trees, easily conned by devious management and believe all they hear and read, just like many readers of the Sun newspaper. Many are deluded, some even appear as stooges in RM courier trying to convince the masses all is rosy in the RM garden. Finding a reasoned balanced opinion is not easy - and I know I am not perfect by any means, but, I always fight on the side of fairness for all and will defend others when wrongly accused of exaggeration or laziness when it's unfounded. Amen on the subject. Let you continue stirring the sh.t pot.

I never said that Delivery staff had it easier,I got off Deliveries as soon as I could had the longest Deilvery in the office,I found the work was better and more varied in the Mail Centre,most Delivery Staff stayed where they were because they didn't want to work shifts,nowadays most of them are trying to get into the Mail Centre.
I don't believe that I said anything controversial in any of my posts but you seem quick to insult people who have views that you don't agree with.
It is difficult to take someone seriously who resorts to personal attacks.

[tommyrep]

Millie
You said you could remember when it was busy and now it ain't ! You had a long duty then, it will be a LOT longer now.
I apologise if you think I turned on you in a personal attack on you. I get touchy when a colleague makes an argument for job reductions, as it is the normal attacks we receive daily in the DO from managers. It really is unfounded in many cases.
The job now does not compare to what it was years ago. It is no longer an easy job and is really suited to younger fit people.
Mechanisation has impacted, with mech mail and the reduced time on prep. The result is more work time available for delivery, pounding the streets. Job and finish is a distant memory and RM want their pound of flesh then more with further lapsing or absorption of duties.
There have been many new changes in packet delivery, tracked items etc and delivery to neighbours which are time consuming to the postie but not fully appreciated by managers.
I do not doubt that there have been many changes in MCs as well, there has been lots of new sorting machines introduced - pre sorted mech mail - reducing man hours on various tasks.
FT jobs go and if replaced on a PT contract. Many new starts are young men with families to support and have NO chance of long term FT work and that is a massive pity in my opinion.
There is no easy answer to our problems, but it's bad enough being hounded by RM bullies for more effort without our own colleagues throwing petrol onto the fire.
It was not a personal attack on you, it's borne out of some concern and a touch of fraustration !
If we don't unite together we are truly finished.

[clashcityrocker]

The letters are counted by the sequencing machines. That count is verified and I have never heard a senior rep question its accuracy.
The figure generally quoted is that letter traffic is falling by about 5% each year and the figures on the first page of this thread would seem to be roughly in line with that.

If you are on delivery, let's say for ease of maths you have 1 000 letters/day.
A 5% drop would be 50 letters less/day. Over the 20 bundles on a delivery it would be 2 letters less/bundle approximately.
You wouldn't even notice. And of course if your round was made bigger it would be undetectable to you. The decline would be subsumed in the general increase of extra delivery points.

50 fewer letters would mean approx. 2 minutes less on prep.
From a business point of view those 2 minutes are not really recoverable. You can't really be given 2 more minutes lapsing, the reality is it just means 2 minutes scratching your arse.
But 2 minutes per postie = 100 000 minutes (assuming about 50 000 posties) or about 1.500 hours or about £15 000/day. And that is without taking into account of the effect on our colleagues in processing or distribution. And worse. the trend in letter traffic appears irreversible. Even the removal of the cap on D2D has done nothing to alleviate the decline in our workload.

So those with their heads buried in the sand who refuse to acknowledge the reality of the decline in letters (which are still the bulk of our daily workload) or those that choose to disbelieve the RM " propaganda" about traffic will never understand what is going on in their industry.

Personally I don't see any way of resuscitating this business. It is slowly dying. If they hived off GLS the death would be swift if not painless.