Poll : Are we all ready for a National Strike?

[daveyeff]

they wont be too keen to jump if the terms are crap. RM want to change the MTSF in their favour. so they pay a max redundancy package of 13 weeks pay. quite a drop from the 104 currently available.

[Newbie001]

As a part-timer fairly new, I personally wouldn't have problem with strike action as I know from experience, things are gonna get a whole lot worse.
CWU don't want a two-tier work force, problem is it already exists. The staff mostly full-time who've been here donkey years. And the staff mostly part-time who've been here less than 5 years. Much of the pension talks don't effect us. And we're not hearing a whole lot about where we fit in with these negotiations as apart from sick pay, a lot of the new proposals don't seem to affect us. This could present a problem to CWU when it comes to ballot as many newer staff feel cut off. Reps need to be out there explaining exactly what these new proposals mean for all of us not just the full-timers.

[ernieshoe]

As a part-timer fairly new, I personally wouldn't have problem with strike action as I know from experience, things are gonna get a whole lot worse.
CWU don't want a two-tier work force, problem is it already exists. The staff mostly full-time who've been here donkey years. And the staff mostly part-time who've been here less than 5 years. Much of the pension talks don't effect us. And we're not hearing a whole lot about where we fit in with these negotiations as apart from sick pay, a lot of the new proposals don't seem to affect us. This could present a problem to CWU when it comes to ballot as many newer staff feel cut off. Reps need to be out there explaining exactly what these new proposals mean for all of us not just the full-timers.

Couldn't agree with you more !

[jetblack]

Unless the shareprice crashes and RM fall out of the FTSE 100 then a dip in share value to around £3.60 due to a strike is a result for big players.

Providing of course that they don't already hold shares - and that they hadn't bought those shares at, for example, £4.60.
And providing also that the CWU isn't too sucessful in its ambitions/actions.

Postpeople don't run the company they work for the company.
The comment just sums up the feeling of "militant" workers.
I would strongly disagree the worker is in the driving seat.

The workforce produce the profits - and we are the real stakeholders in this company.

And on the straw poll taken on this forum and this thread, that workforce are overwhelmingly in favour in standing up for themselves to receive that portion of the cake, as wealth producers, that is rightfully theirs.

Is that militancy ? Or just having the confidence to stand up for yourself ?

[jetblack]

Much of the pension talks don't effect us....a lot of the new proposals don't seem to affect us.

The pension issue (arguably) affects you more than the ones who have been there 30 years. Your DC scheme is already piss poor. The proposal by the CWU is to put you on a new defined benefit scheme.
You have a lot of skin in this game, wether you know it or not.

I suppose, putting it simply the options on the table are this :- 1) everyone goes onto a piss poor DC scheme or 2) everyone goes onto a much better DB scheme (though this new (Wage in Retirement Scheme) is still inferior to the DB scheme many members are currently on)

[ernieshoe]

Unless the shareprice crashes and RM fall out of the FTSE 100 then a dip in share value to around £3.60 due to a strike is a result for big players.

Providing of course that they don't already hold shares - and that they hadn't bought those shares at, for example, £4.60.
And providing also that the CWU isn't too sucessful in its ambitions/actions.

Postpeople don't run the company they work for the company.
The comment just sums up the feeling of "militant" workers.
I would strongly disagree the worker is in the driving seat.

The workforce produce the profits - and we are the real stakeholders in this company.

And on the straw poll taken on this forum and this thread, that workforce are overwhelmingly in favour in standing up for themselves to receive that portion of the cake, as wealth producers, that is rightfully theirs.

Is that militancy ? Or just having the confidence to stand up for yourself ?

If they bought 500,000 of them at £4.60 and can buy 500,000 at £3.60 due to strike action it makes their average share price buy at £4.10.
500,000 shares at a dividend of 23.9p per share for 2017 = £1.95 million
If the shares pick up to what forecasters predict at around £5 per share in due course.
Not a real issue really is there ?

The workforce and the company (shareholders) produce the profit.
With no investment RM would be on its arse - can the workforce buy / lease new HGV's, Vans, PDA's, pay the rent on leases, buy new machinery. Because net profit only can't.
Letters will only go down, packets the other way.
Without new investment and maintenance RM would be gone and so would 100,000 + jobs.

I don't think this forum is in anyway indicitive of the workforce in general.

Many may argue that RM full time workers already receive a fair chunk of battenburg for their efforts and that more eg 35 hour working week for no less money than the current 39 is asking too much !

It would be nice if RM and CWU had a decent working relationship and that realism could come from both sides.

The way I see it RM would like to greatly reduce the benefits of its staff and the CWU are holding the company back from truly reaching their potential.

I disagree with both sides !

I think what's Militant is only seeing your side and not applying rationale ( not aimed at you or anyone in particular).
The Ronnie Barker calls of "screws" towards line managers etc.

I've never worked anywhere before where there is almost contempt from both sides, where managers can do nothing about bone idle, useless workers due to the CWU.
Also never worked with bone idle, useless managers either like RM !

As Billy Hayes once said - it takes 2 to Tango !

[jetblack]

If they bought 500,000 of them at £4.60 and can buy 500,000 at £3.60 due to strike action it makes their average share price buy at £4.10.
500,000 shares at a dividend of 23.9p per share for 2017 = £1.95 million
If the shares pick up to what forecasters predict at around £5 per share in due course.
Not a real issue really is there ?

The dividend would be 1,000,000 x 23.9p = £239,000. However, they are 1,000,000 x 50p = £500,000 down on their shares. ie. they are holding 1,000,000 shares that cost (averaged) £4.10, that are only now worth £3.60 if they were to sell them. And this is assuming profits aren't hit by industrial action - which, of course, they would.
As to what the forecasters say future price will be, thats neither here nor there. If and when the union is sucessful they might be prudent to modify their forecasts I'd say.

The point is, is that you said that the shareholders would be the only beneficiaries of industrial action. I don't believe that to be true. The whole point of IA is that in the final analysis, given a short term sacrifice, it is the workforce that would be the true beneficiaries.

The workforce and the company (shareholders) produce the profit.

How do shareholders produce profit ?
They provide capital, I'll grant you, which on the balance of probabilities they believe will grow by investing it in RMG - fair enough (to a degree). But they don't really produce the new wealth in the first instance - we do. Its our feet on the street. Senior fund managers at Blackrock in New York wouldn't know a D2D from a york. It doesn't make us beholden to them just because they have access to money.

Many may argue that RM full time workers already receive a fair chunk of battenburg for their efforts

Yeah - the institutional investors/shareholders in the City/Wall street are arguing it vociferously (along with the Tory govt and RM management).

I can't think why

[RobertT]

they wont be too keen to jump if the terms are crap. RM want to change the MTSF in their favour. so they pay a max redundancy package of 13 weeks pay. quite a drop from the 104 currently available.

They would still have to pay the statutory minimum amount of redundancy pay, based on wages, age and length of service. With the maximum currently being £14,670. But still a big drop!

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[ernieshoe]

they wont be too keen to jump if the terms are crap. RM want to change the MTSF in their favour. so they pay a max redundancy package of 13 weeks pay. quite a drop from the 104 currently available.

They would still have to pay the statutory minimum amount of redundancy pay, based on wages, age and length of service. With the maximum currently being £14,670. But still a big drop!

https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SERIOUS QUESTION


If / when ballot papers are sent out who thinks that the CWU will get 50% YES out of all ballot papers handed out.

I think NO.

I think a a lot of people will not bother to return the forms, some will not want to lose money, some will be scared of any biteback from RM and also many offices have no union representation and have no idea the CWU are planning possible strike action.

Another DO deliver to my house and I had a parcel delivered.
Spoke to the fella about how the office are up for striking and he had no idea. Had not had a word.
Asked him why his rep hadn't mentioned anything and he said they had no rep as he moved to a mail centre 6 months ago !

[Martin Walsh]

Every single National Industrail action ballot which has occurred since postal ballots were bought into law in 1992 the CWU's average turn out is 68%.

There was the Employee Agenda in 1996 when we had to have reballot as well.

There was the 2003 Pay and Major Change Agreement when two deliveries disappeared.

There was the Pay and Mod dispute in 2007.

Than there was the 2009 dispute BT 2010 dispute

And the last ballot was the Agenda for Growth in 2013 where the turn out was 72% and we did not need to take any industrail action as we got the Agenda for Growth Agreement.

I know there has been more engagement with members over the 4 Pillars than for many years. I myself have attended around 60 offices and held members meetings and also attended branch members meeting and I can state that members do not support the direction the company want to move in on Pensions , Reducing the Pay Bill and their strategy to go for the cheapest version of the changes to the Pipeline , reducing what you deliver or Sort per day so they can reduce costs rather grow the company. Even their decsion to go for later acceptance times is based on just one RDC in the whole of UK shows their lack of ambition and that lack of ambition is why they want to move everyone start times by 2 hours. Whereas if they had a number of RDCs providing more businesses with the offer of latter acceptance times than start times would not need to be moved anywhere near 2 hours later. Instead Royal Mail as always want to capture growth by cutting costs.

In terms of whether the CWU will get over 50% we have not even announced a timetable for an Industrial action ballot and many members are engaged. There will be plenty more meetings with members and letters to home addresses. However the important thing is that there are a further several more days of negotiations before the PEC meeting on the 15th August to gauge whether there has been suitable progress or whether we will announce the industrail action ballot timetable.

Plus twice Royal Mail have improved their final offer on Pensiins and now are discussing further improvements.

None of that would have been possible with the union ! There is power in the union's !

[SierraOscarBravo]

Every single National Industrail action ballot which has occurred since postal ballots were bought into law in 1992 the CWU's average turn out is 68%.

There was the Employee Agenda in 1996 when we had to have reballot as well.

There was the 2003 Pay and Major Change Agreement when two deliveries disappeared.

There was the Pay and Mod dispute in 2007.

Than there was the 2009 dispute BT 2010 dispute

And the last ballot was the Agenda for Growth in 2013 where the turn out was 72% and we did not need to take any industrail action as we got the Agenda for Growth Agreement.

I know there has been more engagement with members over the 4 Pillars than for many years. I myself have attended around 60 offices and held members meetings and also attended branch members meeting and I can state that members do not support the direction the company want to move in on Pensions , Reducing the Pay Bill and their strategy to go for the cheapest version of the changes to the Pipeline , reducing what you deliver or Sort per day so they can reduce costs rather grow the company. Even their decsion to go for later acceptance times is based on just one RDC in the whole of UK shows their lack of ambition and that lack of ambition is why they want to move everyone start times by 2 hours. Whereas if they had a number of RDCs providing more businesses with the offer of latter acceptance times than start times would not need to be moved anywhere near 2 hours later. Instead Royal Mail as always want to capture growth by cutting costs.

In terms of whether the CWU will get over 50% we have not even announced a timetable for an Industrial action ballot and many members are engaged. There will be plenty more meetings with members and letters to home addresses. However the important thing is that there are a further several more days of negotiations before the PEC meeting on the 15th August to gauge whether there has been suitable progress or whether we will announce the industrail action ballot timetable.

Plus twice Royal Mail have improved their final offer on Pensiins and now are discussing further improvements.

None of that would have been possible with the union ! There is power in the union's !

Unless more than 50% of the workforce (not just those who return their ballot papers) were to vote for industrial action, then the union would have no legitimate mandate to hold the country to ransom with this self-defeating course of action.

Too often the union barons crow about being well supported by their members when in fact the reality is turnout is abysmally low and taken as a percentage of the total workforce it is nowhere near a majority.

The union barons and their militant supporters at local level like to think they represent their workers. The reality is most workers are not militant and in my experience most aren't that interested in union 'struggles'.

The union rep in my office looks after himself and other union buddies and nepotism is rife. Corrupt does not even describe the situation. I would rather stand on my own two feet than have any truck with this outfit!

[daveyeff]

here we go again with the ''anti union'' barons garbage!! you are like a broken record. you will be standing on your own two feet in the dole queue if you continue to support a board that is corrupt, peddling propaganda, and wants to cut costs and the workforce by a third. wake up ffs.

[SierraOscarBravo]

here we go again with the ''anti union'' barons garbage!! you are like a broken record. you will be standing on your own two feet in the dole queue if you continue to support a board that is corrupt, peddling propaganda, and wants to cut costs and the workforce by a third. wake up ffs.

It is the union barons and their militant backers with their obsession with industrial action who threaten the business. This course of action will do nothing but hand business and revenue to our competitors and lead to massive job losses. If you choose to fall hook, line and sinker for the union propaganda that is up to you. The public and our business competItors reserve the right to take their business elsewhere.

[daveyeff]

here we go again with the ''anti union'' barons garbage!! you are like a broken record. you will be standing on your own two feet in the dole queue if you continue to support a board that is corrupt, peddling propaganda, and wants to cut costs and the workforce by a third. wake up ffs.

It is the union barons and their militant backers with their obsession with industrial action who threaten the business. This course of action will do nothing but hand business and revenue to our competitors and lead to massive job losses. If you choose to fall hook, line and sinker for the union propaganda that is up to you. The public and our business competItors reserve the right to take their business elsewhere.

answer this....how many job losses do you think will occur if we do nothing!!

[mark.cup]

SOB is getting so boring same old stuff on repeat.

Most of us are not willing to be treated like Hermes workers even when the courier is full of... best job,best pension best blah blah rubbish!