How will you vote?

[baldrick]

Churchill said it best over 100 years ago. Landlords (with some exceptions) and people sitting on un-used land/property are scum:

"Roads are made, streets are made, services are improved, electric light turns night into day, water is brought from reservoirs a hundred miles off in the mountains – and all the while the landlord sits still. To not one of those improvements does the land monopolist contribute, and yet by every one of them the value of his land is enhanced. He renders no service to the community, he contributes nothing to the general welfare, he contributes nothing to the process from which his own enrichment is derived ... the unearned increment on the land is reaped by the land monopolist in exact proportion, not to the service, but to the disservice done."

And 72 Conservative MPs are private landlords.

Forgot to tell the whole story did you? (Graudina 'newspaper')

"According to Guardian research, almost a third of MPs are now letting out their houses or flats, with 196 declaring rental income on the official register of interests this year. The majority of those are earning more than £10,000 a year from the property, topping up their basic MP’s annual salary of £67,060.

The Conservative party has the highest number of landlord MPs at 128, meaning 39% of Tory MPs are landlords, compared with 26% of Scottish National party MPs and 22% from Labour.

The research reveals a much higher proportion of MPs are landlords than the general adult population, in which just 2% are estimated to be renting out homes."

I didn't see the figure in the Guardian, which gives a higher number of Conservative landlords, 128.
It would further explain why the Conservatives opposed a Private Member's Bill requiring that rented properties should be 'fit for human habitation'.
Corbyn and Labour MPs supported the bill. The Tories don't think that rented properties should be of a basic decent standard.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

even Royal Mail are pitching in - Credit where credit's due.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DChJuZWXoAACGH4.jpg

[Tman]

After previously calling for a "Day of Rage to bring down this rotten government" looks like MacDonnell (particularly) and dear old Uncle Jez dodged a bullet when it never actually happened and the Grenfell march passed off relatively peacefully.

Even a merest hint of power and these two tw*ts act like it's Moscow 1917 all over again.

Still, old hand-wringing Jez could have been there again this morning had the petrol bombs started flying, cheerfully promising the world and talking about "the people have spoken".
What a hypocrite!

[baldrick]

Tman you seem to be getting more and more obsessed and stressed by Corbyn's increasing popularity, despite your best efforts.
Perhaps you should relax, maybe go to Glastonbury and chill out?
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/ ... lastonbury" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bustedflush]

Tman you seem to be getting more and more obsessed and stressed by Corbyn's increasing popularity, despite your best efforts.
Perhaps you should relax, maybe go to Glastonbury and chill out?
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/ ... lastonbury" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LOL.....Don't you just love these teenage and young idealists, never had to work and pay taxes in many cases, never had to buy/rent and maintain a house, never had to worry about their kids' schools having next to no English speakers, not really big users of the NHS, never having experienced the 1970's and the terrible destruction wreaked upon workers and families by the last neo-Marxist administration, never had to worry about redressing the outside political interference from the E-USSR.....

So stand thousands of them in front of a few crowd-whipping lefty-trendy right-on 'pop stars' and add to the mix a few Graudina Reporters and Santa Corbyn with his sack of 'free money' to promise them the earth seemingly without the obligation to ever explain where it's coming from....

Yes Baldrick, we see, we really do.....

[jetblack]

...

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Tman you seem to be getting more and more obsessed and stressed by Corbyn's increasing popularity, despite your best efforts.
Perhaps you should relax, maybe go to Glastonbury and chill out?
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/ ... lastonbury" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LOL.....Don't you just love these teenage and young idealists, never had to work and pay taxes in many cases, never had to buy/rent and maintain a house, never had to worry about their kids' schools having next to no English speakers, not really big users of the NHS, never having experienced the 1970's and the terrible destruction wreaked upon workers and families by the last neo-Marxist administration, never had to worry about redressing the outside political interference from the E-USSR.....

So stand thousands of them in front of a few crowd-whipping lefty-trendy right-on 'pop stars' and add to the mix a few Graudina Reporters and Santa Corbyn with his sack of 'free money' to promise them the earth seemingly without the obligation to ever explain where it's coming from....

Yes Baldrick, we see, we really do.....

Since we have never had a neo-Marxist administration both in a literal and political sense, where and when were you living?

The actual fact that we live in a Free Market Economy and have since the concept was first introduced sadly negates any belief that we were ever, and hopefully will never be, subject to neo-Marxist ideology.

I know you meant Socialism and you have contempt for that, but those who tend towards liberal socialism shouldn't be lumped in with Marxists and Communists. Why, well calling me a Marxist or Communist is just as vile to me, as someone calling a right wing liberalist a fascist.

[jetblack]

I thought he must have been talking about Heath nationalising Rolls Royce in 1971 TBH.

Re. Marx - its obvious to all but the most zealous that Marx's predictions of the dictatorship of the proletariat were ill founded - however, his analysis of the machinations of industrial capitalism, its inherent contradictions and its impact upon the ordinary participants within it are as salient today as they were in 1844. If 2008/09 taught us anything at all, its that.

One thing that also rings very true today is that the much lauded "free market" isn't free at all. Its rigged - and its perpetuated by what Marx called the "superstructure" (it was only this week that 4 prominent (ex) bankers were charged by the SFO for eg.).
The US is waking up to this - unfortunately for them they have an almost instinctive loathing for all things socialist/state intervention, so it seems to me that they are in a bit of a hole.
Us in the UK have embraced neo liberalism/Thatcherism, but its kind of gone full circle - and its ultimately proved to be a fruitless exercise unless you are one of the 1% who has benefitted from it. Privatising the wealth producing industries and nationalising the lame ducks is the economics of the mad house - and about as far away from free market economics as you can get.

The most sucessful economy by far of the last 40 years ? China - and that owes as much to Marx as it does to the introduction of the free market around the edges. It is a mixed economy, as are we.
The only debate today is the composition of the mix.

[bustedflush]

I thought he must have been talking about Heath nationalising Rolls Royce in 1971 TBH.

Re. Marx - its obvious to all but the most zealous that Marx's predictions of the dictatorship of the proletariat were ill founded - however, his analysis of the machinations of industrial capitalism, its inherent contradictions and its impact upon the ordinary participants within it are as salient today as they were in 1844. If 2008/09 taught us anything at all, its that.

One thing that also rings very true today is that the much lauded "free market" isn't free at all. Its rigged - and its perpetuated by what Marx called the "superstructure" (it was only this week that 4 prominent (ex) bankers were charged by the SFO for eg.).
The US is waking up to this - unfortunately for them they have an almost instinctive loathing for all things socialist/state intervention, so it seems to me that they are in a bit of a hole.
Us in the UK have embraced neo liberalism/Thatcherism, but its kind of gone full circle - and its ultimately proved to be a fruitless exercise unless you are one of the 1% who has benefitted from it. Privatising the wealth producing industries and nationalising the lame ducks is the economics of the mad house - and about as far away from free market economics as you can get.

The most sucessful economy by far of the last 40 years ? China - and that owes as much to Marx as it does to the introduction of the free market around the edges. It is a mixed economy, as are we.
The only debate today is the composition of the mix.

No, it owes it to free world trade, a colossal pool of cheap labour, lack of the costs of a welfare state/NHS etc. and freedom to own and create wealth. In other words a Communist state that eventually realized that the consequences of their philosophy were starvation, famine, a select privileged few and lack of progression. Until freedom of capital things weren't much better than with their pal chubby cheeks in Pyongyang. Ironically even N.Korea sends workers abroad to factories in Poland and other places to earn hard currency.

And far more than this mythical 1% got significantly better-off when the awful 70's were left behind, with reductions in income tax, right-buy-houses and flogging-off the lame-duck industries that were the laughing stock of Europe. Corbyn is a Marxist, and very dangerous.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

For bleeding hells sake, stop calling people on the left Marxist just because you don't like their politics. You obviously do not understand the broad church of left politics and lump us all in together.

For instance, I bet this is a Marxists policy you'll support: That wages should be set according to the skill and intensity of the work

Corbyn cannot be a Marxist for the simple fact that he is an elected politician who supports democracy. A Marxism-Leninism supporter believes:

The state should be controlled by a single-party of Marxism-Leninism principles
The use of a vanguard party to establish a dictatorship of the proletariat.
abolition of private property
The use of propaganda to teach people to abide by the ideals of communism.

Corbyn does not support any of them, and nor do I. No please debate from an informed position and not fall back on what you have in the past called lefties out for. Lazy labelling just because their politics are different to yours.

Calling a socialist a Marxist is as lazy and insulting as calling a UKIP supporter a racist.

[Tman]

Tman you seem to be getting more and more obsessed and stressed by Corbyn's increasing popularity, despite your best efforts.
Perhaps you should relax, maybe go to Glastonbury and chill out?
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/ ... lastonbury" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks Balds, I didn't realise my "best efforts" would have had any effect in the strange alternative world of Jezza, so I'm heartened to hear you say that.
I should think Corbyn and MacDonnell's call to "bring down this rotten government" by taking to the streets will have "obsessed" most supporters of democratic government and the rule of law. That's a quote which will be hammered home endlessly at the next election (whenever that is) and rightly so. An astounding thing for members of HMO to call for.
Corbyn the buffoon and the dangerous MacDonnell will doubtless live to regret that little militaristic call to arms, although not as much as if the ever-present "Shopping with violence" mobs had shown up.
Shame Blair removed Sedition from the statute book.

As for Glasto etc , Corbyn doing the "ironic act" can join the list of Ken Dodd, (tax dodger) Tom Jones (tax evader, serial philanderer and wife beater) and the once popular Rolf Harris (kiddie fiddler) in that little band.
I suggest the epithet Corbyn (destroyer of the once-proud Labour Party) is most apt.

[baldrick]

I suggest the epithet Corbyn (destroyer of the once-proud Labour Party) is most apt.

'Destroyer of the once-proud Labour Party'?! Over 150,000 people joined the Labour Party during the election campaign , with more joining every day.
I'm sure a lot of the Glastonbury revellers will be signing up too.

[baldrick]

Jeremy Corbyn calls for unity in Glastonbury speech
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/ ... ury-speech" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bustedflush]

I suggest the epithet Corbyn (destroyer of the once-proud Labour Party) is most apt.

'Destroyer of the once-proud Labour Party'?! Over 150,000 people joined the Labour Party during the election campaign , with more joining every day.
I'm sure a lot of the Glastonbury revellers will be signing up too.

Reminds me of the 1980's when the NF would try and recruit members at football matches.

[jetblack]

No, it owes it to free world trade, a colossal pool of cheap labour, lack of the costs of a welfare state/NHS etc. and freedom to own and create wealth. In other words a Communist state that eventually realized that the consequences of their philosophy were starvation, famine, a select privileged few and lack of progression.

It owes it all to capitalism ? How does that square with the fact that the state in China owns around 65% of the nations assets via State owned enterprises ? It's a mixed economy.

Further, massive improvements in living standards post 1949 were evident in China way before it opened up the door to its enterprise zones in what, 1978 - that is, if indicators such as infant mortality rates are to be believed. Indeed, even the growth in GDP in China since 1978 has been largely following the trend in the growth first established post 1949, if slightly accelerated.


Can't find figures for that which is state owned in the UK - but from what I've gleened from my albeit limited reading on the matter, it has to be less than 5%. Apart from the MOD, most of what we own (as a nation) appears to be loss making The Govt gave all the good stuff away to Wall street you see - you can thank Thatcher derugulating the market in the 80's for that - the Americans must have thought that all their Christmases had come at once.
Christ, nowadays even the French and Chinese state sector are soon going to be supplying us with our electricity FFS - how crazy does this need to get ?

No - over here when you elect a Govt. you aren't electing proprietors or caretakers of the nations assets - they are owned by the new Duke of Westminster, global equity management firms and foreign SOE's - you are voting for someone who tinkers with the tax rates. That being the case you could almost argue that we have not democracy, but the myth of democracy.
The Labour Party are in the process of reversing this trend away from democracy.


BTW - you should explain to the Chinese how it is that they have "realised the consequences of their philosophy" - because if its Marx's theories that you refer to, last I heard he was still a compulsory part of the curriculum

And far more than this mythical 1% got significantly better.. with reductions in income tax, right-buy-houses and flogging-off the lame-duck industries that were the laughing stock of Europe.

I thought you were the economics graduate ? You know full well that the rich have gotten richer in this country - even post 2008. Why do you say the 1% is mythical ? Britain's richest 1% own as much as poorest 55% of population
On a global scale the wealth of richest 1% is equal to other 99% of the world population

Its obscene - in a world where 783 million people do not have access to clean water and almost 2.5 billion do not have access to adequate sanitation.

Corbyn is a Marxist, and very dangerous.

Lame MacArthyist fear mongering.
Corbyn is for the many, not the few.

Its you who is dangerous - you are for the few, not the many.