I bet every office has one .... maybe two?

[Judgee]

Anyone frustrated by this has no one to blame but themselves. If you have pride in your work then work to the best of your ability. If your partner cannot or will not, it shouldn't matter to you as you have done the best you can and can take pride in that.

No Busted this is not a pride thing it's a "I wanna go home early and it's not fair wahhhhhh" kinda thing! Or a "I just like to bitch and moan about my colleagues because I am so great I can get everything done in time and I couldn't give a s**t about my work mates" kinda thing!


Me, me, me is what this smacks of and this is why the union is now impotent. Too many selfish twats worrying about what suits them at the expense of others. You cannot defend the indefensible Busted but well done for trying!

[jetblack]

Equally I have zero sympathy for people who clearly take the piss. Said person in our office was spotted chatting for 35 minutes by another postie who lives on his walk. There isn't a work place anywhere that would tolerate that while somebody is being paid to do their job.

To be fair, I reckon that was the OP's gripe.

To tolerate this (being paid for, in the eg. you gave, talking to your pal for 35 min.s) is the road to madness. And bankruptcy. We all suffer.

You might say - "work to your time - what difference does it make to you ?". The difference is that postie A is getting paid 10% less than postie B. Turn the other cheek ? I dunno - it might end up at 15% more. Depends how you look at it - you could say that postie B is getting paid the same amount for doing 10% less work. To me its a none starter. It would not be tolerated in any other business.

This is a completely seperate issue to reasonable grounds for requiring more time - and it demeans and undermines those reasonable grounds. Same with sick scammers - end result is RM are going for zero sick pay for first 3 days.

Who decides ? The manager. But I can well see how this pisses off postie A. It aint natural justice - and we human beings find that hard to stomach.

[Postie45]

and now for the first time it's my turn, I marched straight into the managers office asking for my own van next week to which I was told might not be available so I told them that I'm not prepared to go over by a minute and I will follow procedure next week to Finnish ontime everyday

it just doesnt add up to me, you can say all you want that youre happy working your hours, but to me your actions suggest youre a runner whos used to finishing 1 hour + early everyday. As someone who rarely makes time, to be put with someone slow doesnt really bother me as i finish at the same time regardless, i leave it to the managers to sort out mail that isnt delivered instead of bursting in demanding a van on my own.

[Lounge Lizard]

You said it yourself "You have a time .... work to It ...." so what is the problem?

Doesn't matter if your partner runs around like road runner or crawls along like a slug, your finishing time is your finishing time. Stop doing the managers job for them, if they have a problem with this person then let them deal with it. Or is the problem that you are sulking because you want to finish early ever day?

If so tough shite!

Judgee,
Yes, and a "standing up for yourself they will soon lay off and move onto next victim" attitude suggests just that.

[bustedflush]

You cannot fairly accuse the OP of being a 'runner' as nowhere do they state the tortoise is stopping an early finish. They have already mentioned they will work to time and bring mail back when necessary, not something runners are renowned for! Like I said, my old office had 2 or 3 intolerably slow persons, one of whom has been taken off delivery now from what I hear from old contacts.

So we often see the criticism of runners (or early finishers) which can make normal-paced persons feel slow and thus conscious of DIMs maybe using the runner as a comparison to them if they go over or cut-off. But as we know many early finishers aren't a quick as they like you to think, quite often (as in my case) they have a need to get to the schools etc. so come in early to finish early which suited them, suited their FT colleagues (who due to the daft starting times of PT's would often have to wait around when ready to leave for the PT to get bundled and bagged) and suits the DIMs as cutting-off isn't an issue usually and mail is generally delivered within the business timeframe plus you have a number of posties (and the managers!) who can then take advantage of the ghosting opportunities to clear the office. Not perfect, but job done for the day and office clear. (that's another debate though)

So let's say as an extreme example ALL posties were in the above category - you have an efficient profitable business which gets the job done with less stress for all and you can accommodate in the above both early-finishers and work-to-timers.

Now base the office of people taking HOURS more than others to do their round. Costly, inefficient, they cannot cover any overtime as will be out too late to deliver it within parameters, colleagues getting annoyed with unnecessary slowness and waiting around, arguments over having own vans and Specials etc. plus complaints from customers who at the end of the day pay the wages and expect a decent service. Then there is a high likelihood the DIMs won't get all deliveries covered and fail targets which aren't just there to beat you guys up with, but to meet basic standards of service.

So if you had multitudes of posties behaving like the OP's example the business of letters and small packets would be significantly loss-making in one year, doomed in two. So you think supporting these (fortunately a tiny minority) tortoises is PROTECTING jobs? Think again.

[Postie45]

This isnt about protecting jobs in general, this is more of an issue over the OPs attitude. The fact that he "marched straight into the office" demanding his own van or would cut off and wont go a "minute" over his time just speaks volumes to that. Before you go and defend him on this saying he doesnt have to, sure he doesnt, he also doesnt have to point it out like someone whos used to going nowhere near a min or 2 over to complete.

This "slow" postie is a management issue, not a postman one. If he cant do the job to a certain level then yes this needs to be looked at, in the meantime the OP should be doing the best job he can (and yes it can be affected by someone being slow but again - management issue) not moaning about his partner who he hasnt even worked with yet. If the round doesnt get completed when this slow postie comes on the duty its just more evidence that theres likely an issue with the slow postie and not with the OP.
Im certainly not defending posties who are clearly not suitable for the job and i dont think many other posters are either.

[bustedflush]

This isnt about protecting jobs in general, this is more of an issue over the OPs attitude. The fact that he "marched straight into the office" demanding his own van or would cut off and wont go a "minute" over his time just speaks volumes to that. Before you go and defend him on this saying he doesnt have to, sure he doesnt, he also doesnt have to point it out like someone whos used to going nowhere near a min or 2 over to complete.

This "slow" postie is a management issue, not a postman one. If he cant do the job to a certain level then yes this needs to be looked at, in the meantime the OP should be doing the best job he can (and yes it can be affected by someone being slow but again - management issue) not moaning about his partner who he hasnt even worked with yet. If the round doesnt get completed when this slow postie comes on the duty its just more evidence that theres likely an issue with the slow postie and not with the OP.
Im certainly not defending posties who are clearly not suitable for the job and i dont think many other posters are either.

That's a fair and reasoned post and I can't really pick it apart. One thing I will say is that yes, it is a DIMs problem ultimately but in reality it's their problem for 2 minutes only, one minute in the morning getting the OP their own van or taking note they are likely to not complete, and another minute later when dealing with the mail brought back and /or signing the docket off. For the remainder of the 6 hours or whatever, it's the partner who suffers the problems and stress.

[Judgee]

For the remainder of the 6 hours or whatever, it's the partner who suffers the problems and stress.

Why? I've worked with faster and slower posties. Neither stressed me out as I knew when I was going home. I knew when I was going home months before I partnered up with them. You know why? Because my finishing time is my finishing time regardless of who I am with!

Just as well you got out Busted, sounds like you'd be heading for a breakdown getting all stressed out over nothing!

[Gangham_style14]

*UPDATE FROM TODAY*

This morning I arrived at my start time and proceeded to throw my job off. Once complete I raised my concerns with management about needing to Finnish ontime, UNKNOWN TO ME my colleagues doesn't actually drive which actually shocked me, so I wasn't able
To have my own van, I followed procedures and told the line manager I felt I was not able to complete my round on time, this particular line manager tried his best to try and talk me into "going over and being paid for it" to which I shot him down instantly. I told him I would ring him at 11am and 12pm to give him regular updates to which I did, unfortunately my colleague today was rather slow upon each loop, now I need to clarify I am not a runner, I may have a fast walk but which posties doesn't ??? My wife often complains I walk too fast for her when we are out, but that's something I have gained upon being a postie,
Also everybody I have worked with has never had a problem with this round as it's pretty straight forward and people who have never done it before have always finnished on time each day, unfortunately I don't know what it is about this particular colleague he just likes to under perform, he even mentioned to me "normally so and so helps me when they are done" I kindly in so many words told him he should be finnished around the same time as me, to which he wasn't, now people slated me on here but if you actually worked with this individual you would be in the same position, unfortunately after telephone calls to the line manager the job had to be finnished off by management for the first time ever !
it left me feeling frustrated knowing that I complete this round on a daily basis but due to the poor performance of my colleague I was unable to complete, not only that I was put under constant stress to compete the 10 special deliverys I had today, I also found out from a colleague who worked with him Saturday that they didn't finnish their duty until 14:30 after being easy with half the delivery not having business deliverys on a Saturday so i ask where do you draw the line ? Why is this person getting away with under performing after management are fully aware with his attitude to working? It's beyond a joke, he doesn't drive, he constantly under performs
So what does he actully contribute to the company if he can't complete jobs ???

[Lounge Lizard]

He probably contributes about as much to the company as some of the managers.

[Postie45]

Thanks for the update, I think we`ve already established hes slow and in most eyes under performing, I dont think anyone questioned that and probably expected you would likely not complete your duty this week. You just have to not worry about it and let the managers manage. "now people slated me on here but if you actually worked with this individual you would be in the same position," What makes you think we havent worked with slow people ? This seems like its a whole new thing to you. Ive worked with people where we only just completed 1 of the shared duties in the time it takes me and the normal bloke to complete both. Its just one of those things that comes about from time to time in this job and you just have to get on with it so long as youre not being forced to work past your hours and youre not being blamed for why the delivery isnt getting completed.

In the end these people tend to leave once it becomes clear to themselves or the management that theyre not cut out for the job. Do you have any evidence to suggest hes trying to be slow intentionally ?

[Brandy]

You said it yourself "You have a time .... work to It ...." so what is the problem?

Doesn't matter if your partner runs around like road runner or crawls along like a slug, your finishing time is your finishing time. Stop doing the managers job for them, if they have a problem with this person then let them deal with it. Or is the problem that you are sulking because you want to finish early ever day?

If so tough shite!

Oh dear so glad I am out of it I bet RM love all this arguing amongst posties,whether you are fast,slow young or old,now is the time to stick together,not get on at each other,as you are just playing into their hands.

[clashcityrocker]

This "slow" postie is a management issue, not a postman one.

And what exactly can a manager do given the lack of any outdoor performance standards?
NCI?

[Dexydog]

Park and loop doesn't work.
The whole concept is a joke.
In my experience if I work with someone who needs to be finished on time, that person will usually er on the safe side and leave more than is necessary to ensure he returns to office on time- quite often we then have to take our time at the end to be back at the appropriate time.
Now obviously this is inefficient, and it used to annoy the hell out of me, but now I've seen the attitude of most managers I don't blame them for taking this approach.
After all it only takes more people than usual to not be in and before you know it you're struggling to finish.
It's the system of 2 different people working at different rates, and 2 people doing loops at the same time and one having say 8 service calls and the other having 3 and the whole thing breaks down, the knock on effect being it's impossible to predict accurately what time you're going to finish.
Whoever dreamt it up doesn't have a clue how things work whilst out on delivery.
That same well paid idiot is probably now working on his next project to justify his job, oblivious to how a nation of generally hard working people struggle with his last cock up on a daily basis.

Edit- just read some other posts in this thread, we are not allowed to take mail back- we have to leave what we think we can't complete.
Which way is the norm/correct procedure here??

[TrueBlueTerrier]

@dexydog

Both. The manager instructs, you comply.