we walked out AGAIN today

[fishtank]

I totally agree south London postie. work to rule should be culture and norm. it works with devastating effect with NO loss off pay.

"Working to rule" is a form of industrial action, requires a legitimate ballot by a recognised trade union and may be considered a breach of contract.

I think what you both mean is "doing the job properly" although that in itself can be dangerous since most staff, management and a good sized chunk of the union don't actually know what doing the job properly means.

[TheTrolleyMan]

I hate the expression " working to rule ". It's actually working you're paid hours

[k979aaa]

I hate the expression " working to rule ". It's actually working you're paid hours

Doing the job properly.

[daveyeff]

well anyways, we all decided to knock the overtime on the head and that did the trick. if it needed a legit ballot the management or area rep didn't seem to know cos nowt was said. anyway if we DO ballot for I/a over their pension changes and all their other stupid ill thought out changes, I think that's the way to go. imo.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

well anyways, we all decided to knock the overtime on the head and that did the trick. if it needed a legit ballot the management or area rep didn't seem to know cos nowt was said. anyway if we DO ballot for I/a over their pension changes and all their other stupid ill thought out changes, I think that's the way to go. imo.

A legal ballot means you have some protection under the law when undertaking Industrial Action. If the action is what is called "Wild Cat" (ie no ballot) then there are no legal protections at all. In essence, they could dismiss you all immediately for a breach of contract but in RM that's unlikely to happen.

https://www.gov.uk/industrial-action-st ... ial-action" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[daveyeff]

i knew that teebs, but what i'm saying is if we are balloted (and I definitely think we will) for the pension/other changes they want in, then I think an overtime ban/work to rule is the way to go.

[telithowitis]

i knew that teebs, but what i'm saying is if we are balloted (and I definitely think we will) for the pension/other changes they want in, then I think an overtime ban/work to rule is the way to go.

I agree definitely will have the desired effect as the management have put themselves in a weak position by employing so many part time staff they need people to do overtime or the job fails.
Also this type of action will not impose as much financial hardship on us and will be much better for us public opinion wise.

[fishtank]

Also this type of action will not impose as much financial hardship on us.

Unless you're part-time.
An overtime ban only works at a local level to resolve local issues over a short period of time or if it's used alongside strike action, it doesn't work at national level because unlike a strike you can't set up a picket line. At the moment RM management have been told to keep a lid on all local action to prevent them going national, an issue like the one in this thread is resolved because there are clear lines of fault and an agreement to fall back on so it's in RMs interest to resolve it.

A national strike is a whole different ball game, there is no right or wrong in a national dispute and no agreement to fall back on, only what we want and what they want.

[steve1873]

well, that's the 2nd time in less than a week. after the last walkout the DSM promised everyone would get paid for the polling cards. even the ones who handed back or didn't go over. yesterday DOM told us 6 people where not getting paid, namely the ones who constantly hand back. the area rep challenged him and asked what about what the DSM said, he says this has COME from the DSM. rep emailed him to ask if there had been a misunderstanding at the gate or was he reneging on his promise. DSM says he NEVER said everybody was getting paid. now we all know for a certain fact he DID say everybody was getting paid. there was 50 odd witnesses. so out we went again....this time we were out 2 hours. area rep came.. DSM came... much to-ing and fro-ing, then DSM says ..look EVERBODY WILL BE PAID. we went apeshit... saying YES you are saying that now cos we are out AGAIN. we weren't going to go back in at all til they got it all sorted, but rep and DSM were saying it will take at least a week for clarification even if we stayed out. so we voted. decided we would go back in,,, BUT, on OUR terms. we are now working to rule. NO earlies, NO overtime, NO working days off, EVERYBODY cutting off or handing back. the second wave driver came up, he wouldn't cross our line. so it all went back to the mail centre. when we went out this morning EVERBODY left loops. we came back on our times and the place is absolutely crawling with DSMs and directors, all top senior gaffers. all the second wave was all prepped in on everybodys frames. they know its all going to fail tomorrow cos no earlies in and nobody extending. they are literally f****d!!! who says work to rule wont work? it IS. we are doing it.

Its the only way to make them sit up and take notice, no matter what rules are in place regarding strikes etc, you cannot factor for immediate local disputes and this happens, the reason it happens is because of runners, early starts, working over without claiming, the management gets lazy and assume that the workforce has been so brow beaten into servitude by their own rod that have no will or fight left in them. not saying that this particular office does the running around etc, managers do talk to each other and they get moved around, they will work in offices where this happens, my office went on a work to rule when our managers wanted to add more loops as "we have the time to absorb", some of this is down to the runners killing the the job, I myself like quite a significant few in the office do the job properly, this pressed home to the runners of the consequences of their actions. so we all worked to rule, no goodwill, no early starts, no using our cars ( I don't anyway) no working over etc, and the result ? massive chaos, office failed everyday, area manager got involved and tried to intimidate us by saying we are taking "unofficial industrial action" to which the Rep said working to rule is NOT an industrial action, because of the way we were spoken to like naughty children, the result was we dug in our heels even further. An example of how not to do it, you couldn't make it up

The end result all threats were lifted, no further loops will be added, overtime will be paid, no revisions, the management backed off and let us get on with it, unfortunately the runners were back to their own tricks and it wasn't long before managers were pushing it again.

Work to rule is effective, but it requires commitment and solidarity, the whole office sticking together, it does make your job easier and reduces stress, like how I am doing now the managers have given up trying to make me run around and come in early

Take no crap lads, make them respect you and what you can do, continue to work to rule long after this is resolved, make it part of the "office culture" and believe me, the stress will fall off and the job gets easier ironically.

Work to rule IS industrial action. Doing the job properly and each individual making choice to not do OT isn't. It is effectively the exact same thing, but choice of words is crucial.

[NWpostie]

well, that's the 2nd time in less than a week. after the last walkout the DSM promised everyone would get paid for the polling cards. even the ones who handed back or didn't go over. yesterday DOM told us 6 people where not getting paid, namely the ones who constantly hand back. the area rep challenged him and asked what about what the DSM said, he says this has COME from the DSM. rep emailed him to ask if there had been a misunderstanding at the gate or was he reneging on his promise. DSM says he NEVER said everybody was getting paid. now we all know for a certain fact he DID say everybody was getting paid. there was 50 odd witnesses. so out we went again....this time we were out 2 hours. area rep came.. DSM came... much to-ing and fro-ing, then DSM says ..look EVERBODY WILL BE PAID. we went apeshit... saying YES you are saying that now cos we are out AGAIN. we weren't going to go back in at all til they got it all sorted, but rep and DSM were saying it will take at least a week for clarification even if we stayed out. so we voted. decided we would go back in,,, BUT, on OUR terms. we are now working to rule. NO earlies, NO overtime, NO working days off, EVERYBODY cutting off or handing back. the second wave driver came up, he wouldn't cross our line. so it all went back to the mail centre. when we went out this morning EVERBODY left loops. we came back on our times and the place is absolutely crawling with DSMs and directors, all top senior gaffers. all the second wave was all prepped in on everybodys frames. they know its all going to fail tomorrow cos no earlies in and nobody extending. they are literally f****d!!! who says work to rule wont work? it IS. we are doing it.

Its the only way to make them sit up and take notice, no matter what rules are in place regarding strikes etc, you cannot factor for immediate local disputes and this happens, the reason it happens is because of runners, early starts, working over without claiming, the management gets lazy and assume that the workforce has been so brow beaten into servitude by their own rod that have no will or fight left in them. not saying that this particular office does the running around etc, managers do talk to each other and they get moved around, they will work in offices where this happens, my office went on a work to rule when our managers wanted to add more loops as "we have the time to absorb", some of this is down to the runners killing the the job, I myself like quite a significant few in the office do the job properly, this pressed home to the runners of the consequences of their actions. so we all worked to rule, no goodwill, no early starts, no using our cars ( I don't anyway) no working over etc, and the result ? massive chaos, office failed everyday, area manager got involved and tried to intimidate us by saying we are taking "unofficial industrial action" to which the Rep said working to rule is NOT an industrial action, because of the way we were spoken to like naughty children, the result was we dug in our heels even further. An example of how not to do it, you couldn't make it up

The end result all threats were lifted, no further loops will be added, overtime will be paid, no revisions, the management backed off and let us get on with it, unfortunately the runners were back to their own tricks and it wasn't long before managers were pushing it again.

Work to rule is effective, but it requires commitment and solidarity, the whole office sticking together, it does make your job easier and reduces stress, like how I am doing now the managers have given up trying to make me run around and come in early

Take no crap lads, make them respect you and what you can do, continue to work to rule long after this is resolved, make it part of the "office culture" and believe me, the stress will fall off and the job gets easier ironically.

Work to rule IS industrial action. Doing the job properly and each individual making choice to not do OT isn't. It is effectively the exact same thing, but choice of words is crucial.

Re my BOLD, that's precisely what we did, if you read what I said. No early starts, no use of private cars etc, we did loads of overtime tho and this blew the office budget out of the water, they had to use both sides of the docket sheet.

I must admit I used the word "work to rule" when describing what we did, even the manager tried say we are working to rule, the rep has corrected him by saying we are doing the job to spec with no corners cut as the management believed we had time to absorb extra work while conveniently ignoring the early starts, private car use, non booking of OT etc.

The Rep warned us that unless we do job to spec and show the managers that there is no spare capacity to absorb more work and cut hours. They will do it and it's in our interests to resist that proposal. It worked.

[fishtank]

It's a legal minefield for the union, any collective action in the workplace can be considered to be industrial action, not starting early and taking breaks would normally be fine but it has to be an individual decision and no pressure or coercion can be applied to any member not taking part.

Working only to minimum standard would most likely be considered industrial action because it's effectively an organised reduction in productivity or a "go slow". Collective refusal of overtime would also be considered industrial action in fact almost any deviation from normal working practices can potentially end up with the union in court. That's why we have rule 13 and why in most cases of unofficial industrial action the union's first priority has to be to resolve the immediate situation and get the members back to work, then if necessary organise a ballot.

Remember we're talking about the courts here and they're not exactly trade union friendly.