Why I won't bother joining unions

[TheTrolleyMan]

Is that union who allowed longs & shorts in without consulting its membership , just remember that yes the union has done some good things as well as well as agreeing to others is hourly rate overtime on a Saturday

[TheTrolleyMan]

Or maybe it was the last Pension changes when the union buried its head in the sand

[enskied]

" Unfortunately I was stabbed in the back by both the union and management both said I can use my car for deliveries. I was doing all that to help them out, they kept asking me to do extra when they knew I was last back at the office and none of the regular staff would do it."

Let's be honest. You were not doing this for any altruistic reasons.
You were doing this for hard cash.. But then you wanted to earn that an easier way... Take your car, finish go home from where your last letter ts posted..? I say letter, cos it isn't gonna be tracked,, recorded or large packets is it ? No thought not. Had your sort in our office over the years and guess what.. They all went in to Management. Most of them are back as Posties.

[Dorset Plodder]

Too many people blame the CWU when really they should be looking at themselves, and their colleagues. What is needed is more information for New Starters about what Management can, and cannot, ask them to do. Perhaps that might be a job for the CWU (perhaps a handbook for Newbies)?

We've all learnt the hard way, and it's normally cost us our own time, or money (normally through unpaid overtime or lapsing). I'm not a Rep but I'm always trying to pass on any info, such as "You only need to lapse IF you've got the time" or "Management cant Force you to do overtime if you want to finish on time" or "Never prep households in your own time".

Too many Newbies are just thrown in at the deep end and not given any introduction to the Business by their Unit Reps (never mind the Management). This is when they develop bad habits, not using LWTs, Doorstepping, Not taking Meal Breaks. It's hard to try and convince them months later when all you get is, "I've always done it this way since I started"!

[templek]

Is there a need to be in the union of you have an issue and they won't help? My bank account gives free legal assistant for any legal matter including employment disputes. If

And when you go and see the DOM saying "this bloke at the bank said I don't have to do this or that" and he says in reply "I don't give two wossnames what some bloke down the bank says..." you're then going to do....what?
Get the bank guy to come down and negotiate with RM..?

I know people who were sacked and took RM to a tribunal for wrongful dismissal and won receiving a year's pay lump sum compensation with no help from the unions. They had resigned from them a few months previously because they had little support from them. They basically googled the info they needed, they would have used the legal assistance with their bank or motor insurance but didn't know it could be used for employment disputes

[Tman]

A wrongful dismissal case would have broken various parts of the Employment laws and so advice from non-RM employees would be expected, but again, is the bloke from the bank really going to come to your office when you need a new pair of trainers or some overtime hasn't been paid correctly?

[templek]

" Unfortunately I was stabbed in the back by both the union and management both said I can use my car for deliveries. I was doing all that to help them out, they kept asking me to do extra when they knew I was last back at the office and none of the regular staff would do it."

Let's be honest. You were not doing this for any altruistic reasons.
You were doing this for hard cash.. But then you wanted to earn that an easier way... Take your car, finish go home from where your last letter ts posted..? I say letter, cos it isn't gonna be tracked,, recorded or large packets is it ? No thought not. Had your sort in our office over the years and guess what.. They all went in to Management. Most of them are back as Posties.

I was employed as a Saturday permanent (in eff cr 8 hour contract) but was working full time 6 days all on overtime rates. However when the shared van driving system was introduced a lot of the regulars brought back their cut offs. They only worked their contracted hours. However the Saturday perms line me were always asked to do the cuts 2-3 bags daily when we came back. If we refused like I did on a few occasions I was told if I didn't do it they would only call me in to work Saturdays only which is what I was contracted to do. Yes I was doing it for money, a case of doing 60 plus hours or just my standard 8 with no time for family social life or evening classes etc
The union rep was present and nothing apart from saying that is the case. That was blatant bullying but the union reps only seem interested in helping permanent full timers with over ten years seniority.

Both management and reps gave me the nod and wink to use my car because it was only way to do it. But stabbed me in the back hanging me out to dry when other managers found out.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Sorry mate but you are very naive in the way of Unions, or you are trying to blame someone else for what happened. As you were dismissed, I can kind of see why you would think the blame may lie elsewhere.

I'll explain why I am being so blunt. You have been a member on RMC since 2008, and we haven't been exactly quiet on the subject of Private Cars on delivery when it was acceptable, and we posted LTBs and discussed the impact on insurance when RMs bond was removed from PCODs,

You can blame your own managers because they have a legal responsibility to ensure any private vehicles being used for work are checked as roadworthy including insurance and MOT. If they gave you a nod a wink then I can see why you blame them.

The rep however, has no responsibility whatsoever in your decision to use your private car at all. He should perhaps have advised you it was against current agreements, but we did that and you ignored our advice, would you have ignored his.

Even if he didn't advise you, and even if he is guilty of stabbing you in the back, one bad experience, is hardly enough reason to say the Union movement as a whole is not worth joining.

[templek]

I always had business insurance only £20 extra on top of comprehensive cover and yes I had MOT etc because I was using the car

Main gripe with unions they did nothing when I was told if I didn't do the extra work I will only bE called in to work Saturdays. So they condone management bullying? Isn't this an abuse of the system? What is the official RM/ CWU line on such management bullying practices?

[telithowitis]

" Unfortunately I was stabbed in the back by both the union and management both said I can use my car for deliveries. I was doing all that to help them out, they kept asking me to do extra when they knew I was last back at the office and none of the regular staff would do it."

Let's be honest. You were not doing this for any altruistic reasons.
You were doing this for hard cash.. But then you wanted to earn that an easier way... Take your car, finish go home from where your last letter ts posted..? I say letter, cos it isn't gonna be tracked,, recorded or large packets is it ? No thought not. Had your sort in our office over the years and guess what.. They all went in to Management. Most of them are back as Posties.

I was employed as a Saturday permanent (in eff cr 8 hour contract) but was working full time 6 days all on overtime rates. However when the shared van driving system was introduced a lot of the regulars brought back their cut offs. They only worked their contracted hours. However the Saturday perms line me were always asked to do the cuts 2-3 bags daily when we came back. If we refused like I did on a few occasions I was told if I didn't do it they would only call me in to work Saturdays only which is what I was contracted to do. Yes I was doing it for money, a case of doing 60 plus hours or just my standard 8 with no time for family social life or evening classes etc
The union rep was present and nothing apart from saying that is the case. That was blatant bullying but the union reps only seem interested in helping permanent full timers with over ten years seniority.

Both management and reps gave me the nod and wink to use my car because it was only way to do it. But stabbed me in the back hanging me out to dry when other managers found out.

In my first year at RM I have had good advice and support from my local CWU Union Rep on a regular basis. Very approachable and he helps out people regardless of service and position. Just speaking as I have found it, well worth my subs every week in my opinion.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I always had business insurance only £20 extra on top of comprehensive cover and yes I had MOT etc because I was using the car

But once the Bond was removed, so was permission from RM to use your car. The fact you had business insurance is immaterial because you still need permission from the business to use it for work. Thats the business as in RM, not your local manager.

[templek]

So what is the union position on management bullying, 'if you don't do the extra work as overtime each day we will only call you in one day a week'? Or they are not bothered because it doesn't affect Full time permanent staff? If that is the case why would anyone employed as a casual, part timer, Saturday permanent etc join the union?

[South_London_Postie]

Why would you not look for a job with more hours in the contract. How can the union protect you from the company only providing the hours you agreed to in the contract? You must first help yourself

[TrueBlueTerrier]

So what is the union position on management bullying, 'if you don't do the extra work as overtime each day we will only call you in one day a week'? Or they are not bothered because it doesn't affect Full time permanent staff? If that is the case why would anyone employed as a casual, part timer, Saturday permanent etc join the union?

Technically there is nothing wrong with Royal Mail doing stopping overtime, as long as it is done fairly and above board.

However, the Unions position would be to help represent you if you decided that the treatment was unfair enough for you to start the grievance process. Was it right for the rep to sit there and not stand up for you, I don't know. Were you prepared to take the next step, did you ask for his assistance, did you ask to have a word with the rep in private. If none of the above, the rep isn't a mind reader and you have to make the first step. The rep is there to guide and represent and defend you but it is your decision whether or not to take it further.

[templek]

Like I said before the two managers who allowed me to use my car and the union rep refused to get involved when the other managers found out. They were saving their skins because they would all be in trouble if it could be proven they knew. I wasnt called back in and they avoided me when the others found out. The 'advice' given was to resign because I wouldn't be called back in which I did.