Get voting labour, renationalise royal mail!

[NWpostie]

*Double post*

[NWpostie]

Amazing how many resort to insults when someone disagrees with their opinion

Grow up

I I have been wanting to say the same thing but thought whats the point.

It seems to be the left wing that dishes them out the most, calling anyone who vote Tory as stupid is not exactly going to get them to change their mind, it's like the Brexit referendum again, scaremongering and insult for daring to vote Leave.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

First past the post guarantees a strong and stable government.

So why did we have a coalition and why is the Tories current majority so slim.

[Tman]

Non sequitur.
The awful Tory etc coalition of recent times is knack-all to do with the deficiencies of PR voting.
See Italy, Israel etc for how well PR works.
Just like buses, they'll be another government along any time now...

[stan_lers]

Already been said before and it's still rubbish they are muderers and killed many innocents, captured people of their own community and torturing them before they are killed, they are known as the "dissappeared"

Saint Corbyn wants to honour them !!

A friend of mine was killed in NI during a fun run for a local charity, they weren't on combat operations or anything.

Scums the lot of them.

He doesn't want to 'honour' them. The entire IRA thing has been blown way out of proportion. They say he took part in a minute's silence for IRA members killed by the SAS - it was actually a silence for all those killed in the raid which included innocent civilians. When he spoke at events in the 80s about securing peace, you're obviously going to get people from all sides turning up, including terrorist sympathisers, but that doesn't make Corbyn himself a terrorist sympathiser. He believes in peace over war, and people act like that is a bad thing. He opposed the murder of civilians by the British, (ie on Bloody Sunday, yet apparently only the IRA committed atrocities), just as much as he opposed the IRA murdering civilians. Why do his views 30 years ago, which ultimately helped contribute to peace after a century of violence, still matter today?

See Italy, Israel etc for how well PR works.

Anyone can pick out bad examples. See Norway, Germany, Holland or Sweden for how well PR works, instead.

Coalitions only fail when you have petty party politics like in the UK. You have to change the style of politics your country uses, where parties come together and compromise, which is a good thing. Instead of arguing and opposing policies purely because another party put them forward (the Tories opposed abolishing tenants fees when the Liberals put it forward, and now they're all for it as their own policy), you have more discussion instead of the playground arguing and name-calling we have now. I don't really think we're capable of acting that way in this country though. I'd also take any of the negatives of PR over FPTP where 60-70% of the country are almost always governed by a party they didn't vote for.

[rambo1]

Never understand the working man/postman voting Tory.Turkeys and Christmas comes to mind.

Better than being an idiot and voting for a water walker and his brainless lackies. Can you seriously think the likes of Corbyn and Diane Abbot would run the country better?????

See this has to stop - why do you attack Corbyn in such a disrespectful way - if you don't like him fine, you don't have to - but attack the policies - what of the policies do you dislike - what do you like about the Tory policies

And in answer to your question yes I do think they would run it better, better than running down the NHS to sell it off, increasing the deficit, increasing homelessness, making working people have to use foodbanks and saddling our children with thousands of pounds worth of debt just to get a degree!!

What about you???

Isn't the point of getting a degree, to get a well paid job? If you are earning say 60k a yr, then you should be able to pay off the debt that your education has cost you. It's an investment in your future, if you like. Why should a postie on 20k pay through their taxes to fund someone through uni only for them to earn 60k? How's that fair?

[clashcityrocker]

Why should a postie on 20k pay through their taxes to fund someone through uni only for them to earn 60k? How's that fair?

Why would a postie fund a doctor through university? Because at some point they might need a doctor? We all need doctors.
Why fund a teacher? Because our kids need educating etc etc

You get the drift?

[jetblack]

Isn't the point of getting a degree, to get a well paid job?

Thats the theory yes - but we all know there isn't nearly enough well paid jobs to cover the numbers graduating.

No - the massive drive to having young people continue in education is in reality to keep them out of the dole queue. And if you can get them to mortgage their future in so doing, all well and good

[Tman]

Thats the theory yes - but we all know there isn't nearly enough well paid jobs to cover the numbers graduating.

Not enough jobs in media studies, ancient Greek civilisations or Philosophy maybe, but I've never yet seen an unemployed doctor, Engineer or even solicitor, so the lesson is to pick a degree which leads to a paying career.

No - the massive drive to having young people continue in education is in reality to keep them out of the dole queue. And if you can get them to mortgage their future in so doing, all well and good

The usual Olympic standard BS.

[Tman]

Anyone can pick out bad examples. See Norway, Germany, Holland or Sweden for how well PR works, instead.

Bad examples? If you're calling for change in the electoral system wouldn't you debate the bad points, disadvantages and failures as a priority?
Ever noticed how it's the losers who call for PR? Had the UK brought it in we'd be like Germany and have nothing but slightly different shades of centrist politics, and so would you really want any sort of government involving Clegg or Farron, pleasing no-one at all and getting absolutely nothing done?
No thanks, I, (and seemingly the rest of the UK) will take the nice simple system which has worked for centuries.

[mickeymacca]

This is very serious folks. A postman/woman not voting Labour is a traitor to their class.

So you're saying I should vote for the party that came fourth in 2015, and who came joint-fifth in the recent council elections in the hope of preventing the party that came third in 2015 (and, worryingly, first in the council elections) from winning this time? Or maybe I could just vote for the party that came first in 2015, won the overlapping Holyrood constituency in 2016 and can hopefully beat the Tories this time around?

Voting system is out of date.
Proportional representation anyone?

No.

It's a recipe for an unstable coalition government and we've seen how that worked in the continent with a lot of horse trading and very little getting done, as it would be difficult to get concensus, it's recipe for disaster.

It's already been rejected in a referendum the last time round.

First past the post guarantees a strong and stable government.

The referendum was for the Alternative Vote system not PR, NW. (but I take your point in that a change was rejected)

I think its fair to say NW that the Brexit negotiations are one of the main reasons you are voting Conservative, I think you stated that in another thread.
I presume also then that you voted to leave Europe. As one of the most prominent arguments put forward for leaving Europe was the £350 million that could be spent on the NHS rather than being paid to the EU, now we are leaving which party do you think is the most likely to honour that suggestion?

[NWpostie]

First past the post guarantees a strong and stable government.

So why did we have a coalition and why is the Tories current majority so slim.

Well let start with this fact since 1852 there have been FIVE coalition governments, the WWII is more national wartime coalition, much better than European PR system.

A simple majority is all that's need to form a government, this way time will not be wasted in horse trading as we have seen during Cameron/Clegg coalition negotiations with all the compromises that comes with it. Instead the business of running the country will carry on smoothly.

We had referendum on PR at the insistence of Clegg as his party had the most to gain from this, I'm glad to say the British people voted against it in favour of retaining the FTP.

[stan_lers]

We had a referendum on a form of PR that no one even wanted. It was way more complicated than it needed to be and the campaign was even worse than the EU one (saying babies need incubators, and soldiers need bulletproof vests, not new voting systems, cus as we all know, that's definitely where the money they saved went).

It's unfair to say the Liberals 'have the most to gain', it's actually that they've lost out the most. They've been shafted for 80 years by a system that only works when you have two parties. They regularly get 15-20% of the vote, yet only 5% of the seats. Every election millions of people vote for them and that vote goes straight in the bin with zero representation. If the system had been fixed against you for all that time then you'd be complaining too.

[jetblack]

The people of the UK are the ones that would gain most from the introduction of (STV) proportional representation. Their votes would actually count for something. They might then actually start to feel that they have something to contribute to the democratic process - and participate.
Instead of what we have now - a desperate disillusioned non-engagement that may or may not end in a vote.

[NWpostie]

And perpetual coalition government is a good thing ?