Get voting labour, renationalise royal mail!

[stan_lers]

I have a notion as to why the working man/woman no longer supports labour. It's called socialist policies.

The welfare state has resulted in the working poor being played off against the non working poor.

Uncontrolled immigration has resulted in the working poor being unable to buy a house and paying high rents.

The working man/woman complaining about endless population growth on an island 600 miles across gets you called a racist/xenophobe by the left.

When you talk about 'the welfare state' - you realise well over half of the country gets back more than they pay in? You have to be earning probably £50k+ for most of your working life to break even, factoring in education, healthcare, pension etc. 'Welfare' is not exclusively for those drinking Stella on the corner of a council estate - it's most of us.

We actually had controls available on EU immigration, but we didn't use them. We also have complete control over non-EU immigration, yet we never used it. It's the Tories that have allowed net immigration to rise to 300,000, what does this have to do with Labour??

The reason immigration isn't controlled is because it benefits us. It has a very small effect on wages in a few sectors. A British citizen costs hundreds of thousands before they get to working age, while an immigrant comes in with a clean slate and starts paying in straight away. They don't create the burden on the state, they actually ease it. House prices aren't high because of immigrants, they're high because we don't have enough houses, and we don't have enough houses because it's in the interests of those who own land and houses to keep prices on the up.

We have an ageing population - it's the elderly that cost us billions upon billions in pensions, healthcare, taking up 4 bed houses for one old widow. Quite rightly, no one is saying the old should be deported or euthanised, but the point is that it's our ageing population that are to blame for the growing burden on the state, not immigrants or those on welfare.

[Radio]

This is very serious folks. A postman/woman not voting Labour is a traitor to their class. Guys this Labour Party is not NEW Labour scum that Tony Blair gave us. This is our chance and only chance to get our country out of rich people's hands. There are so many things that are wrong with the Tories:

• -Failed every single immigration target every single year of their rule
  -Low Corporate Tax for millionaires
  -Higher VAT for everybody
  -Higher Tuition Fees for our children (this was introduced by NEW Labour scum, yes but NEW Labour needs to be killed)
  -Housing crisis
  -Starving the NHS of essential funding
  -Defence cuts
  -Fox hunting for the rural 'gentry'
  -Tories have absolutely no policies to talk about
  -They are doing politics of sound bites. Unreliable and untrustworthy
  -Enemies of working people
  -We need a change from this nasty party

Labour manifesto is out there. It is clear on their plans and Brexit. I voted out but I would not trust Tories with Brex[/code]it. They will delay it and run it into ground. If they go through with it, they will turn the UK into a Tax Haven for the rich. The poor would suffer in either scenario. Jeremy Corbyn is a good man stuck in bad politics. He is under fire from the media since the day one. This is a sign that Corbyn has got a chance. I hate politicians but I fear Tories. 5 more years of this and we'll be done for.
https://youtu.be/oSwHXEhTO64

[Radio]

[Tman]

Of course all posties (and similar wage-earning people) should vote labour, it goes without saying.
The problem is, as it has been for some years, Corbyn, Abbott, etc. and now many/most feel that can't vote labour.
He's an abject failure on so many levels and on so many issues.
He can't decide what to do about pushing the nuclear button, he can't decide how he feels about Brexit, he can't decide what to do about immigration, he knows all the words to the Internationale but apparently doesn't to the National Anthem.
He's the worst contender for PM in my lifetime and he's going to either split or kill off the labour party for good.

[Tman]

an immigrant comes in with a clean slate and starts paying in straight away. They don't create the burden on the state, they actually ease it. .

Do you actually believe that? I mean really understand it, rather than just "I read it somewhere"?

[Radio]

[Radio]

an immigrant comes in with a clean slate and starts paying in straight away. They don't create the burden on the state, they actually ease it. .

Do you actually believe that? I mean really understand it, rather than just "I read it somewhere"?

Immigration should be strictly points-based and skilled people should be let in. Their country of origin paid for their education (many of those Asian nurses and doctors in our hospital wards were educated in their countries of origin at great expense to those countries). Don't let in the riff raff but the policy has been absolutely opposite to this for last 50 years. We let in the riff raff and actually stop decent educated folks who follow the rules. Tories have miserably failed in immigration controls for every single year of their government now. They are not the party to "take back control."

Actually big business needs cheap unskilled labour and no party will ever go against the wishes of the big business. This is how the system works. Don't hold your breath. None of them can or will control immigration. Capitalism needs cheap unskilled labour and as long as you live in a capitalist society, you'll have to put up with immigration.

[the beautiful bd south]

Amazing how many resort to insults when someone disagrees with their opinion

Grow up

[Radio]

Of course all posties (and similar wage-earning people) should vote labour, it goes without saying.
The problem is, as it has been for some years, Corbyn, Abbott, etc. and now many/most feel that can't vote labour.
He's an abject failure on so many levels and on so many issues.
He can't decide what to do about pushing the nuclear button, he can't decide how he feels about Brexit, he can't decide what to do about immigration, he knows all the words to the Internationale but apparently doesn't to the National Anthem.
He's the worst contender for PM in my lifetime and he's going to either split or kill off the labour party for good.

Corbyn is talking about taxing the rich. He is maligned by them and they are spending big money on media to brainwash general public into believing that he is ineffective. Only he has a progressive, coherent message and media is creating noise to drown his message. 7 years of Tory austerity and there is absolutely nothing to show for it except inequality and poverty. This country is dying and Tories are killing it. Anyone but Tories can stop this decline.

[stan_lers]

an immigrant comes in with a clean slate and starts paying in straight away. They don't create the burden on the state, they actually ease it. .

Do you actually believe that? I mean really understand it, rather than just "I read it somewhere"?

What's to 'believe'? Childhood and old age are the most expensive parts of our life, where we take tens of thousands or more and pay nothing back. Like I said, it's why the majority of us, not just those on job seekers, will die in debt to the state, including probably 95% of us who work for RM. It's also why the idea that our 'hard earned taxes' are paying for benefits and immigrants is stupid because most of us aren't paying for ourselves, let alone others.

Immigrants don't come here to claim benefits, they come here to work and whether you like it or not, they pay more in tax than they take out - £3bn in tax compared to £0.5bn in welfare. They're also more educated - even of those from Eastern Europe, 25% have a degree compared to 24% of Brits.

[yellowbelly]

Just in the interests of clarity (and not making any excuses for any Govt of any particular flavour), this source of this data
appears to be from data produced in 2012 based on poverty information measured at 2008 and 2012.

The coalition had been in power for two years at 2012, in 2008 New Labour had been in power for eleven years.

From the same document:

Percentage poverty rate 2008 24.0 Labour in power
Percentage poverty rate 2012 25.6 Coalition in power

Figures are still abysmal but thank goodness your kids were not living in Greece, Ireland, Iceland or Latvia at that point.

We will hear stats from all sides in the next few weeks but to quote Mark Twain: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

[taurus88]

I think one of the things I have noticed, as I have grown older, is that fewer and fewer people are prepared to stare the truth in the face and accept that they are working class. So many people want to think of themselves as middle class because it is a greater comfort to believe in a lie than accept a hard truth. Few people who vote Conservative will benefit from a Tory government. But people seem to have short memories, even though they know subconsciously that Conservative governments privatise profits and nationalise debts. The next victim will be the NHS and we'll all pretend that we didn't see that coming. There's a reason why so many people are shy Tories, it's because shame never washes away. But Tories are good at winning propaganda wars because the people who own the media are the same people their scorched earth policies benefit.

[Tman]

Immigrants don't come here to claim benefits, they come here to work and whether you like it or not, they pay more in tax than they take out

Think about it, at what point of personal income do we start paying tax in the UK?
How much does a child cost in education per year 5-16 years old?
How much does a visit to the hospital or GP cost?
You talk as if every migrant was a university-educated instantly-employable person, and reality is far from that.
IF migrants were such a financial bargain, why don't the poorer countries of Europe snap them up?
Don't believe all the crap..it's bad for you.

[yellowbelly]

Immigration should be strictly points-based and skilled people should be let in. Their country of origin paid for their education (many of those Asian nurses and doctors in our hospital wards were educated in their countries of origin at great expense to those countries).

Surely the right thing to do would be to refuse entry so these qualified individuals can repay and benefit their countries and thereby force the UK to educate and pay our
own student doctors, doctors and nurses the wages they deserve?

[stan_lers]

Just in the interests of clarity (and not making any excuses for any Govt of any particular flavour), this source of this data
appears to be from data produced in 2012 based on poverty information measured at 2008 and 2012.

The coalition had been in power for two years at 2012, in 2008 New Labour had been in power for eleven years.

Percentage poverty rate 2008 24.0 Labour in power
Percentage poverty rate 2012 25.6 Coalition in power

This isn't really providing clarity because child poverty was 30% in 1990 after the Tories doubled it from 1979. It was 20% by the time the coalition took over, and they've now taken it back up to 30% by the latest figures.

Yes, it was still too high under Labour, but they did a lot to reduce it, while the Tories have actively helped it rise over their last two terms in office.

Think about it, at what point of personal income do we start paying tax in the UK?
How much does a child cost in education per year 5-16 years old?
How much does a visit to the hospital or GP cost?
You talk as if every migrant was a university-educated instantly-employable person, and reality is far from that.
IF migrants were such a financial bargain, why don't the poorer countries of Europe snap them up?
Don't believe all the crap..it's bad for you.

I honestly don't know what you're getting at, but you're arguing with cold facts. £3bn contribution, £0.5bn cost - it doesn't matter if you like immigrants or not, that's their economic impact on the UK as a whole. They don't have to be university educated (though as I said, more of them are than the UK population), these are simple figures on what they add to the country versus what they take.

Also, education to GCSE level costs around £70,000 per child. Like I said, most of us - you included - will never pay off what you've taken before you die. It's probably not nice to hear that most immigrants come to the UK and pay for their stay while you (and me, and most of us here) are a burden on the taxpayer, but it's the truth.