Correct procedure process?

[sixfoottwo]

Please could a Rep or someone who knows about this answer the following. Thanks.


*Informal meeting regards incident - verbal

*Formal Fact finding - Verbal and then hard copy given.

*Decision meeting - Decision in writing and Verbally.



Has the correct process been followed?

Thank you.

[woofwoof]

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... re#p705269" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Try that

[sixfoottwo]

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... re#p705269

Try that

Thank you, will take a butchers.

[sixfoottwo]

I had a look through that but no mention of what I was looking for

How come there is no mention regards a bump in a vehicle? nothing at all there

[clashcityrocker]

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 15&t=46440" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[rehabron]

Please could a Rep or someone who knows about this answer the following. Thanks.


*Informal meeting regards incident - verbal

*Formal Fact finding - Verbal and then hard copy given.

*Decision meeting - Decision in writing and Verbally.



Has the correct process been followed?

Thank you.

1) Fact finding meeting to be arranged to establish the circumstances should be completed within 24/48 hours after the alleged incident so that the details are still fresh in ones mind.
2) Following fact finding meeting the interviewing manager will come to a decision if the matter is to end there or there is a case to be answered and if the punishment award is within his/her levels of authority or to be passed on to a manager at a higher level of authority if it is felt that the disciplinary award requires a punishment outwith the scope of the first line manager.
3) Formal fact finding is open to interpretation and basically means that notes have been taken during the interview but that is what a fact finding meeting is anyway.
4) You will receive a copy of the notes from the FF meeting and given the opportunity to make amendments to these notes and sign off.
5) On return of the notes you will receive in writing in relation to (2)
6) Being processed by aa higher level of authority you will receive in writing a date that the disciplinary meeting is to be held and given your legal right to be accompanied at this meeting or waive this right.
7) Depending on the out come of this disciplinary meeting you will have the right of appeal by confirming this 3 working days after the decision letter. An appeals manager will be appointed preferably from outside your resourcing area who will look into your case afresh and can uphold, reduce or revoke the decision.

[Himaggen]

The first stage is informal resolution, or seeking an explanation. The purpose being to identify if there is scope for a resolution without needing to use the formal process or if there may be further investigations required. As this process is informal it should not consist of pre-written questions, notes should not be taken and an accompanying Union rep/colleague is not an entitlement. If the employee wishes they can meet with their rep in advance of the meeting though and should be given a reasonable opportunity to do so.

The next stage, if deemed necessary, would be Fact Finding, this would happen if your Manager has determined from your informal meeting that a more detailed investigation is required. This is part of the formal process and as such requires notification of at least 48 hours and any documents or evidence used should also be provided in advance of, or during, that meeting. The purpose of the meeting will be to seek a more detailed explanation from you, the questions asked will be scripted and your answers captured. Your rep or a local colleague can accompany you to this meeting and may make representations on your behalf. After the meeting the captured answers should be typed up and sent to you, you should be given three days to amend any errors or omissions, sign and return them.

At this stage your Manager makes a determination whether the case warrants formal conduct action or if informal discussion and case closure is appropriate. If proceeding to conduct the Manager must decide, if the allegation is proven, whether the appropriate penalty would be within their authority level; passing it up the chain if necessary.

If informal action isn't warranted the next stage would be a Formal Conduct meeting.This stage also has the same requirements and processes as at fact finding but all evidence which will be used in determining a decision, other than the questions you will be asked, must be made available to you in advance of that meeting.

A decision will be made after all the information provided has been considered and will be one of penalty or informal discussion. The deision should when possible be made face to face and followed up in writing too. It should explain their reasining and why they consider the most penalty appropriate.

The penalties are Warning (kept on record for 12months), Serious Warning (specified period 12-36 months), Serious Warning with transfer, Suspended Dismissal (specified period 12-36 months), Suspended Dismissal with compulsory transfer, Dismissal with notice and Summary Dismissal (dimissal without notice).

You have a right to appeal any formal decision, instructions for doing so should be given to you along with the decision notice.

[sixfoottwo]

Thanks all.

Colleague at work mentioned you should have a interview aswell as a formal fact finding but they have only done these.

*Informal meeting regards incident - Verbal but was entered onto a computer.

*Formal Fact finding - Verbal and then hard copy given.

*Decision meeting - Decision in writing and Verbally.

All very confusing, Manager says the Factfinding is the interview as well but colleague is adamant they need to be separate this is not right so should be thrown out!

Colleague is pretty clued up and the Managers are known to be a bit dim.

Royal Fail eh

[cobblers]

Please could a Rep or someone who knows about this answer the following. Thanks.


*Informal meeting regards incident - verbal

*Formal Fact finding - Verbal and then hard copy given.

*Decision meeting - Decision in writing and Verbally.



Has the correct process been followed?

Thank you.

1) Fact finding meeting to be arranged to establish the circumstances should be completed within 24/48 hours after the alleged incident so that the details are still fresh in ones mind.
2) Following fact finding meeting the interviewing manager will come to a decision if the matter is to end there or there is a case to be answered and if the punishment award is within his/her levels of authority or to be passed on to a manager at a higher level of authority if it is felt that the disciplinary award requires a punishment outwith the scope of the first line manager.
3) Formal fact finding is open to interpretation and basically means that notes have been taken during the interview but that is what a fact finding meeting is anyway.
4) You will receive a copy of the notes from the FF meeting and given the opportunity to make amendments to these notes and sign off.
5) On return of the notes you will receive in writing in relation to (2)
6) Being processed by aa higher level of authority you will receive in writing a date that the disciplinary meeting is to be held and given your legal right to be accompanied at this meeting or waive this right.
7) Depending on the out come of this disciplinary meeting you will have the right of appeal by confirming this 3 working days after the decision letter. An appeals manager will be appointed preferably from outside your resourcing area who will look into your case afresh and can uphold, reduce or revoke the decision.

What if the Informal Meeting/Fact Finding meeting is not completed,or even arranged,until over 48 hrs after the alleged incident? Do management have ways around this procedure?

[rehabron]

What if the Informal Meeting/Fact Finding meeting is not completed,or even arranged,until over 48 hrs after the alleged incident? Do management have ways around this procedure
 
If a fact finding meeting has not taken place and gone direct to conduct meeting then this was be extremely foolish of RM as whatever outcome came from the conduct meeting the procedure would be tainted in the eyes of an ET for not carrying out a full and complete investigation into the circumstances.
Holding a fact finding later than 48 hours would not necessarily have a detrimental effect of the procedure provided that one takes place. The manger could easily give an explanation as to why he/she was unable to hold a FF meeting as they were still investigating the incident and still had witnesses to interview are were statement gathering.

[rehabron]

I had a look through that but no mention of what I was looking for

How come there is no mention regards a bump in a vehicle? nothing at all there

If this question of " correct procedure process" is in relation to an RTA. Then this has been answered on another forum that the Conduct Code in a signed agreement with management and union that the conduct code should NOT be used as a mechanism for RTA.
There are sufficient penalties within the RTA procedure to utilise without encroaching into conduct penalties such as level of blameworthy, driver retraining, suspension from driving duties etc.
If there was a continuous occurrence of RTA from the same driver over a limited period then this scenario could be valid to deal with conduct penalty levels.

[rehabron]

On the other subject of investigatory meetings and conduct meetings. RM disciplinary procedure allows the first line manager to hold FF meetings and impose conduct penalties up to serious warning levels this is to reduce the amount of administration staff being involved in disciplinary meetings.
The ET on scrutinizing the compensatory award to the complainant if successful would respect the ACAS code of practice 1 which states that investigatory and disciplinary meetings should not be conducted by the same person.

[sixfoottwo]

Nice one rehabron, you seem very clued up mate.

I'd post more detail but fear it would get into the wrong 'hands' so to speak.

[sixfoottwo]

The first stage is informal resolution, or seeking an explanation. The purpose being to identify if there is scope for a resolution without needing to use the formal process or if there may be further investigations required. As this process is informal it should not consist of pre-written questions, notes should not be taken and an accompanying Union rep/colleague is not an entitlement. If the employee wishes they can meet with their rep in advance of the meeting though and should be given a reasonable opportunity to do so.

The next stage, if deemed necessary, would be Fact Finding, this would happen if your Manager has determined from your informal meeting that a more detailed investigation is required. This is part of the formal process and as such requires notification of at least 48 hours and any documents or evidence used should also be provided in advance of, or during, that meeting. The purpose of the meeting will be to seek a more detailed explanation from you, the questions asked will be scripted and your answers captured. Your rep or a local colleague can accompany you to this meeting and may make representations on your behalf. After the meeting the captured answers should be typed up and sent to you, you should be given three days to amend any errors or omissions, sign and return them.

At this stage your Manager makes a determination whether the case warrants formal conduct action or if informal discussion and case closure is appropriate. If proceeding to conduct the Manager must decide, if the allegation is proven, whether the appropriate penalty would be within their authority level; passing it up the chain if necessary.

If informal action isn't warranted the next stage would be a Formal Conduct meeting.This stage also has the same requirements and processes as at fact finding but all evidence which will be used in determining a decision, other than the questions you will be asked, must be made available to you in advance of that meeting.

A decision will be made after all the information provided has been considered and will be one of penalty or informal discussion. The deision should when possible be made face to face and followed up in writing too. It should explain their reasining and why they consider the most penalty appropriate.

The penalties are Warning (kept on record for 12months), Serious Warning (specified period 12-36 months), Serious Warning with transfer, Suspended Dismissal (specified period 12-36 months), Suspended Dismissal with compulsory transfer, Dismissal with notice and Summary Dismissal (dimissal without notice).

You have a right to appeal any formal decision, instructions for doing so should be given to you along with the decision notice.

Bump.

The bit in Red has NOT been done, Manager seems to think that is also included in the formal fact finding, Rep disagrees with Manager.

Who is right?

I have had the following

1. Informal Chat straight after incident - on my own
2. Formal Fact find - Rep present
3 ????
4. Decision - Conduct coded -

Should the highlighted bit be @ 3 ? or is the Rep clutching at straws??

My appeal rests on this

[sixfoottwo]

Anyone?

Do I have any grounds at all regards the above? Management are pulling a fast one I think.