Pay Rise New Joiners

[rogersh]

The Union has posted proposed changes for new joiners, One of which states; mid- pay point after 18 months (Now 6 months)
Many new starters, Who have recently completed 6 months, are wondering if that implies a 50p increase is due on their hourly rate.

I started in 2013 & received a pay increase of 91p p/h after completion of one year.
Can anyone clarify how the pay scales should apply.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I thought it was 2 increases each at 6 month intervals of 50p

[fb1969]

Current job adverts (not London) state:

Age 17_____£7.40______+ 6 months______+12 months
Age 18_____£9.51______£10.09__________£10.57



Note that the rises come in on the day of the 6/12 month anniversary, so just dividing the pay by the number of hours in the anniversary week will give an incorrect hourly rate - eg you may have 2 days at the lower rate and 3 at the higher.

[rogersh]

Current job adverts (not London) state:

Age 17_____£7.40______+ 6 months______+12 months
Age 18_____£9.51______£10.09__________£10.57



Note that the rises come in on the day of the 6/12 month anniversary, so just dividing the pay by the number of hours in the anniversary week will give an incorrect hourly rate - eg you may have 2 days at the lower rate and 3 at the higher.

Thanks TBT & fb1969 for the replies.

As I mentioned on the Mail Centre/Distribution forum the issue was raised with the WAM at WTLL this week but his response was "I'm not sure" (Usual cop-out). Anyway I will ask him to contact HR to clarify...Sounds easy enough,,,,Why is everything you pursue with RM management so arduous?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Because they are poorly trained, lack leadership skills, aren't allowed to make decisions without referring them further up the food chain, lack support from the same food chain. Lance Jacks, RAF Corporals and Killicks all have more training, ability and freedom than even the most senior managers appear to have, and THAT is the cancer that's eating at Royal Mail, not us being overpaid and underworked for 13 years.

[terry2972]

Having been in this job for 3 years I totally agree with your point of view I don't think the management would be able to organise a piss up in a brewery

[fishtank]

Lord Sawyer's words from 15 years ago about Royal Mail management.....

Such managers are essentially supervisors - or, as they were described to us - “body watchers”. We were more than once presented with a picture of a front-line manager as someone who stands in the middle of a work area with his arms folded watching the employees and whose permission has to be asked whenever an employee wants to go to the lavatory or get a drink of water. That may be a stereotype, but in fact we observed some of these behaviours for ourselves.

Such managers direct the work but they do not manage the staff. When they come to apply the Conduct Code or the Attendance Procedure they are liable to treat them simply as punitive procedures to be applied mechanically and to ignore the emphasis on correction and counselling which have been deliberately written into them. When asked to carry out tasks which involve leadership and communication skills - such as conducting briefings and meetings requiring genuine discussion with employees - they are often out of their depth. They are ill-equipped to face the challenge of motivating employees at a time of rapid change.

The same attitudes can be found in more senior operational management. It shows itself in a refusal to correct or (in extreme cases) punish unacceptable behaviour on the part of front-line managers. Many senior managers, like their front-line subordinates, often have little concept of how to deal properly with their employees or their union representatives. Many used the language of “Management control” - reflecting a prevalent “command and control” attitude.

[jetblack]

..Lord Sawyer..

Yep - that rings very true to my ears FT

[rogersh]

..Lord Sawyer..

Yep - that rings very true to my ears FT

I have decided to write to HR directly to ascertain information to mid-pay point & any error.

I made reference to lack of committed response by management, One example I have posted in a thread "Tipping bag into ALP sleeves" which took 3 months to resolve.

Potted version;

November 2016; I report unsafe act verbally to WAM & line manager.
I write to line manager citing roles & responsibilities & his obligations. - No response
I report issue to CWU site safety rep who informs WAM & WCM pillar safety lead.
December;
I contact CWU Area safety rep (As the site rep has now vacated the role!!) who indicates the issue will be raised at the H&S meeting in January 2017. The issue is not raised!.
I write to "justsayit" Moya Greenes office citing H&S being the number one priority of RMG & that employees & agency workers H&S was being compromised for the sake of efficiency. Eventually I receive a response via a channel manager who states he has informed the WCM Champion.

February 2017;
The unsafe act ceases.

I receive a copied in email from the WCM Safety lead who has queried why the CWU ASR did not raise the issue at the H&S meeting & indicates she raised her concerns at the outset (November) with the WAM & WCM champion.

March 2017
The issue was raised by the plant manager in the H&S meeting but the the discussion was not included in the "minutes" posted on the notice board!!

[hampshireman]

Because they are poorly trained, lack leadership skills, aren't allowed to make decisions without referring them further up the food chain, lack support from the same food chain. Lance Jacks, RAF Corporals and Killicks all have more training, ability and freedom than even the most senior managers appear to have, and THAT is the cancer that's eating at Royal Mail, not us being overpaid and underworked for 13 years.

Point very well made.

[rogersh]

..Lord Sawyer..

Yep - that rings very true to my ears FT

I have decided to write to HR directly to ascertain information to mid-pay point & any error.

I made reference to lack of committed response by management, One example I have posted in a thread "Tipping bag into ALP sleeves" which took 3 months to resolve.

Potted version;

November 2016; I report unsafe act verbally to WAM & line manager.
I write to line manager citing roles & responsibilities & his obligations. - No response
I report issue to CWU site safety rep who informs WAM & WCM pillar safety lead.
December;
I contact CWU Area safety rep (As the site rep has now vacated the role!!) who indicates the issue will be raised at the H&S meeting in January 2017. The issue is not raised!.
I write to "justsayit" Moya Greenes office citing H&S being the number one priority of RMG & that employees & agency workers H&S was being compromised for the sake of efficiency. Eventually I receive a response via a channel manager who states he has informed the WCM Champion.

February 2017;
The unsafe act ceases.

I receive a copied in email from the WCM Safety lead who has queried why the CWU ASR did not raise the issue at the H&S meeting & indicates she raised her concerns at the outset (November) with the WAM & WCM champion.

March 2017
The issue was raised by the plant manager in the H&S meeting but the the discussion was not included in the "minutes" posted on the notice board!!

I have received a response from HR which states "You are under the CWU network grade. On this pay grade you only get a pay increase after one year in service. The six months pay increase is NOT applicable to 'Network' OPG grades .It only applies to CWU grades within Mail Operations and Modernisation."

[rogersh]

Update. Received confirmation;

Edited from PDF

Pay Rate Guide - CWU Represented Grades in Royal Mail Logistics

Guide for employees

Overview This is the guide to pay for CWU represented grades in Royal Mail Logistics.
Pensionable Pay – For members of the Defined Contribution scheme only basic pay
is pensionable. Where other payments are shown as pensionable this applies to
members of the Royal Mail Pension Plan only

Logistics Single Operational Grade Effective From 4th April 2016

Basic Pay - Pensionable
............. National...........Outer London........Inner London
................£pw....................£pw ..............£pw
Max ......... 413.39...............489.88............518.19

AR Age 18....372.05...............440.89............466.37

Age 17........ 289.37..............342.92............362.73

Age 16......... 248.03..............293.93...........310.91



Hourly rates based on 39 hours pw

...National.....Outer London.... Inner London
......£ph.............£ph...................£ph
Max 10.600.......12.561..............13.287


New employees will progress to the maximum of the grade after one year’s service
but not before age 18, subject to successful completion of their trial period and the
acquisition of the relevant skills and competencies, and in all cases after no more
than 2 years’ service but not before age 18.