THE CWU AND FOUR PILLARS OF SECURITY Vs ROYAL MAIL AND THE RACE TO THE BOTTOM

Creditshampoo · Post by **Creditshampoo** » 19 Apr 2017, 18:16

cloherty1976 wrote:
tommyrep wrote:
cloherty1976 wrote:
tommyrep wrote:Cloherty 1976
There is NOTHING in these RM proposals that can be seen as a benefit to any person working in delivery.
If you see anything that improves your lot in processing, ! please share or point it out.
Left deliver,left processing and now on logistics. I move to whatever I think the deal is best. On logistics we have no paid meal reliefs and monthly pay but we have a better salary. I have most to lose on pension but to me life is to short. Royal Mail will keep changing things over the next few years and I will act accordingly. Maybe I will invest more in avc to enhance pension and if it's good for shareholders I will invest in shares to make up for what I will lose. I am not going to worry about what they do or don't as you will never know. But in the past 30 years whatever they have done hasn't been to bad for me and so I am certainly not going to worry about it. Life is to short in my book
As a career RM employee you have jumped through various hoops for your own benefit. I have no gripe with anyone wishing to improve their lot for their families. Your circumstances may not be akin to most other employees, although the field of logistics and even higher management will also attract the attentions of cost cuts, slowly but eventually. We now have young men on PT contracts with NO chance of ever getting full time work, !! . Your lot and options may be rosier than theirs, but you are no more safer from RM cuts. I am surprised that many well paid salaried staff have not came under more focus - so far. Savings in order to compete with competitors is obvious, feet on the ground are still required to push printed paper through letter boxes, I very much doubt the competitors employ the same numbers of high earners in their logistics departments. I'm all right jacks beware. On another point, are you a CWU or Unite member ?, or neither?
No longer cwu member and yes there maybe cuts very soon. Resign starts soon and don't have enough seniority to pick the duty I won't and will probably be in a rotation of 4 with 2 Saturdays which are normally 13 hour shifts which I don't want. But what the hell I won't moan and just do the shift with a

You're not even a union member why even bother complaining. Freeloader.

raged1999 · Post by **raged1999** » 19 Apr 2017, 18:21

fishtank wrote:
norm wrote:
fishtank wrote:There is nothing in the PDA system that can tell you what time members of staff are finishing work.
Yes there is, simple GPS tracking, what time the PDA left the office, what time it came back.

Even in the PDA's power off state how do we know GPS isn't continuing to work? Unless you physically unplug the battery.
The fact that the PDA is back in the office does not mean I'm finished work, I finish work when I leave the office not when I enter the office. Today there was a 15 minute difference between the two times, I then had 20 minutes of my break to add. That's a 35 minute discrepancy between the PDA returning to the office and my legitimate "finishing work" time.

People are failing to understand. They are not interested in what time you leave the office. It is all about delivery span. If you are back at the office, you have finished your delivery. It is as simple as that. It is how long out there that they are looking at. The sooner people realise, the better.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 19 Apr 2017, 18:27

citypostie wrote:
number one wrote:Everybody is aware that there is no agreed maximum or minimum delivery speed don't they??
At the moment but part of what rm want is performance standards for outdoor delivery, it doesnt take a genius to work out that will include times for delivering and with the pda they will be able to work out how quickly your covering the ground

how can they expect a 55- 60 year old to be as quick as a 20 -35 yr old. people with dodgey hips/knees/back etc. generally not 100% fit. outdoor performance on these measures will be discriminatory to say the least.

number one · Post by **number one** » 19 Apr 2017, 18:39

daveyeff wrote:
citypostie wrote:
number one wrote:Everybody is aware that there is no agreed maximum or minimum delivery speed don't they??
At the moment but part of what rm want is performance standards for outdoor delivery, it doesnt take a genius to work out that will include times for delivering and with the pda they will be able to work out how quickly your covering the ground
how can they expect a 55- 60 year old to be as quick as a 20 -35 yr old. people with dodgey hips/knees/back etc. generally not 100% fit. outdoor performance on these measures will be discriminatory to say the least.

Exactly, lots of people making things up. Whats to stop me leaving my pda in my van because I know I have a loop that has nothing that need scanning. Am I going to be punished for have 30 minutes of inactivity on my PDA? I don't think so. They can not and never will be any agreed standard for outdoor delivery.

Post by **cloherty1976** » 19 Apr 2017, 18:46

Creditshampoo wrote:
cloherty1976 wrote:
tommyrep wrote:
cloherty1976 wrote:
tommyrep wrote:Cloherty 1976
There is NOTHING in these RM proposals that can be seen as a benefit to any person working in delivery.
If you see anything that improves your lot in processing, ! please share or point it out.
Left deliver,left processing and now on logistics. I move to whatever I think the deal is best. On logistics we have no paid meal reliefs and monthly pay but we have a better salary. I have most to lose on pension but to me life is to short. Royal Mail will keep changing things over the next few years and I will act accordingly. Maybe I will invest more in avc to enhance pension and if it's good for shareholders I will invest in shares to make up for what I will lose. I am not going to worry about what they do or don't as you will never know. But in the past 30 years whatever they have done hasn't been to bad for me and so I am certainly not going to worry about it. Life is to short in my book
As a career RM employee you have jumped through various hoops for your own benefit. I have no gripe with anyone wishing to improve their lot for their families. Your circumstances may not be akin to most other employees, although the field of logistics and even higher management will also attract the attentions of cost cuts, slowly but eventually. We now have young men on PT contracts with NO chance of ever getting full time work, !! . Your lot and options may be rosier than theirs, but you are no more safer from RM cuts. I am surprised that many well paid salaried staff have not came under more focus - so far. Savings in order to compete with competitors is obvious, feet on the ground are still required to push printed paper through letter boxes, I very much doubt the competitors employ the same numbers of high earners in their logistics departments. I'm all right jacks beware. On another point, are you a CWU or Unite member ?, or neither?
No longer cwu member and yes there maybe cuts very soon. Resign starts soon and don't have enough seniority to pick the duty I won't and will probably be in a rotation of 4 with 2 Saturdays which are normally 13 hour shifts which I don't want. But what the hell I won't moan and just do the shift with a
You're not even a union member why even bother complaining. Freeloader.

Who is complaining!

Post by **rambo1** » 19 Apr 2017, 18:55

AceMark wrote:Doesn't take a genius to see that working with 3 bundles won't work. How many hands have we got? Hard enough taking a parcel out my bag, scanning and getting it signed whilst holding the other bundle. Although they did say early on in the document that d2d's would be auto collated. I though they meant into the Mail between addresses. Obviously not if they plan on it being the third bundle.

Don't by any chance carry a bag on your shoulder do you?

citypostie · Post by **citypostie** » 19 Apr 2017, 19:18

number one wrote:
daveyeff wrote:
citypostie wrote:
number one wrote:Everybody is aware that there is no agreed maximum or minimum delivery speed don't they??
At the moment but part of what rm want is performance standards for outdoor delivery, it doesnt take a genius to work out that will include times for delivering and with the pda they will be able to work out how quickly your covering the ground
how can they expect a 55- 60 year old to be as quick as a 20 -35 yr old. people with dodgey hips/knees/back etc. generally not 100% fit. outdoor performance on these measures will be discriminatory to say the least.
Exactly, lots of people making things up. Whats to stop me leaving my pda in my van because I know I have a loop that has nothing that need scanning. Am I going to be punished for have 30 minutes of inactivity on my PDA? I don't think so. They can not and never will be any agreed standard for outdoor delivery.

Im not making anything up, dingo said ages ago before all this stuff came out officially that rm want outdoor performance standards using the pda data, yes thatll be scanning figures for 2d etc but can you honestly say you think they wont monitor the speed people work at? I never have a loop without at least a few scans on now so when all parcels have 2d labels plus all the tracked etc youd have to have a seriously small loop

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 19 Apr 2017, 19:20

Hmmm I know of one guy who was brought into the managers office and was told what his login and log-out times were on the old brick PDAs. But if that was a reason to make him take out all of his work on that day, then they were very much mistaken. They questioned his performance so he questioned why they made the duties bigger. Why there were also collections to perform on his duty. He also asked why was there lapsing, when lapsing was only supposed to make you work up to your time, and not be performed as overtime. He never got a reply to that.

So I won't read too much into any data that management capture from the PDAs. Because surely the most important data that should get captured on the PDA is the barcodes themselves? And if big brother is constantly checking our whereabouts, well, maybe we could cover our PDAs in tin foil. It worked for the phones in the White House.

Post by **rambo1** » 19 Apr 2017, 19:38

The three bundles idea is just, well, laughable. It's gotta have been dreamed up by someone who has never come close to being a postie. How do they know how big you like your bundles, will they vary this to take into account the size and number of D2D? Oh yeah and half the rurals frames aren't even in the order you deliver them. Another well thought idea, not.

tommyrep · Post by **tommyrep** » 19 Apr 2017, 20:00

taurus88 wrote:The problem with the material the CWU has produced is that it tells us a great deal about them. Ignoring the fact that Royal Mail's vision is bleak, they do have a vision, and they have had this vision for some time. None of the things they are seeking are particularly surprising, in fact, something of this nature is what many of us expected as soon as the 5-year pay agreement was due to end. The CWU, whether its intentions are good or bad, has rarely had a vision. They are a reactive force, and that has led to accusations of cronyism between the top brass at Royal Mail and the top brass at the CWU. These negotiations will continue with the CWU backpedalling and negotiating from a position of weakness because they don't have a vision. Their means of moving forward is defy, defy, concede. Anybody with any experience of the CWU is just waiting for the concessions. Now, that reflects on a weak and selfish membership, too. But let's not expect this to end well, regardless of the actions we take.

Sadly, I agree with the bulk of what you say!
Privatisation would obviously bring about massive, big changes. I am not honestly surprised by the ruthless approach and stance taken by RM, they have grasped the nettle big time from a position of strength.Their vision is draconian while blindly ignoring the honouring of any past agreements. They would gladly welcome industrial action that would put us in breach of the 5 years plan thrashed out at time of privatisation. It would appear with hindsight the Union have been caught on the hop, no plan B for enforcing what should have been a watertight binding agreement.
Now unfortunately, there is no bottle by members to take on the fight.
In defence of the CWU leadership, they did make a concerted effort in trying to fight the privatisation of RM from the outset. This government and the previous Labour gov seen it as a poisoned chalice and were glad to see it off loaded. We were taken for a ride and accepted the carrots dangled for short term greed. The revision money's, shares and promises of a bright future was all part of a massive con. Ultimately, unless there is a miracle, zero hour contracts are now on the horizon with workforce of whippets on delivery.

AceMark · Post by **AceMark** » 19 Apr 2017, 20:44

rambo1 wrote:
AceMark wrote:Doesn't take a genius to see that working with 3 bundles won't work. How many hands have we got? Hard enough taking a parcel out my bag, scanning and getting it signed whilst holding the other bundle. Although they did say early on in the document that d2d's would be auto collated. I though they meant into the Mail between addresses. Obviously not if they plan on it being the third bundle.
Don't by any chance carry a bag on your shoulder do you?

Yes.

lightningpostman · Post by **lightningpostman** » 19 Apr 2017, 21:30

after a 20 mile delivery they expect staff to work overtime and be paid to exact minute they complete at a rate no higher then your basic pay.......

the business will burn to the ground in 2 weeks

later starts work to time no double /triple overtime rate for delivery that will go well into the dark...................

it will burn to the ground fore sure.

no amount of agency workers and fresh meat will fill that void, the business only gets by with the good will and possibility to make a few mins here and there with overtime, offices struggle on a daily basis to cover 7 -8 walks a day, due to sickness , being understaffed, rentions ratres of 5%% of new staff.
how the hell they think they gonna cover those 8 walks a day when they are planning to make our working conditions on delivery worse then they already are!

tmac · Post by **tmac** » 19 Apr 2017, 21:55

The industry will collapse only goodwill keeps it going remove that and see the mess

Post by **rambo1** » 20 Apr 2017, 19:12

C'mon, nobody does it for 'good will', they do it for the money.

Post by **Brandy** » 20 Apr 2017, 20:50

daveyeff wrote:
citypostie wrote:
number one wrote:Everybody is aware that there is no agreed maximum or minimum delivery speed don't they??
At the moment but part of what rm want is performance standards for outdoor delivery, it doesnt take a genius to work out that will include times for delivering and with the pda they will be able to work out how quickly your covering the ground
how can they expect a 55- 60 year old to be as quick as a 20 -35 yr old. people with dodgey hips/knees/back etc. generally not 100% fit. outdoor performance on these measures will be discriminatory to say the least.

Yes but they do,which is so unfair!The job is so hard now that in a few years even the young ones will be knackered and they will be thrown on the scrap heap like us old ones have been!!!!