seniority

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 04 Apr 2017, 20:01

clashcityrocker wrote:
jetblack wrote:

Where is the agreement that states clearly its to do with length of service ?
Try reading The Way Forward.

Thanks for your input on this one Clash

Way Forward confirms its on date of commencement + length of service irrespective of wether full or part time.

RM have kept it simple (they only have OT records going back 6 years) - but some people will be getting stuffed by this.

Its clearly absurd - but nonetheless is expedient (convenient and practical although possibly improper or immoral) for Royal Mail.

datasaint · Post by **datasaint** » 04 Apr 2017, 20:10

ballsup wrote:
norm wrote:I still don't think people are grasping fully what I'm suggesting.

I'm not talking about comparing contracted hours, I'm talking about RM counting up all the hours you've ever been paid in the company, and using that as a basis for seniority.

Whether you're FT or PT it's irrespective. If anything it'd be level the playing field between FT and PT staff, as plenty PT staff work FT hours and get no recognition for it.
F/T 39 hour contract regularly does 10 hours O/T per week, P/T 25 Hour contract regularly does 10 hours O/T per week, Both start on same day. The part time person loses out on seniority every day under your system through no fault of their own hence under this the part timer is being discriminated against, the part timer would have to do 24 hours O/T per week to keep up with the full timer.

Yes but if OT was offered to those on the lowest contracted hours first up until 39 hours, there would be no bias.

It'd encourage PT to work FT thus giving more weight to getting peoples hours made up, and it'd help make seniority more balanced, win win really.

If you contribute more to the company you should be recognised as such, but that doesn't happen.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 04 Apr 2017, 20:25

What if you can't work overtime?
What if you have childcare issues?
Should you be less senior?
That would affect more women than men.
Lawyers would be turning up in buses to file sex discrimination cases against Royal Mail.
What if can't work overtime because you have a disability?
Should you be less senior?
Lawyers would be turning up in buses to file disability discrimination cases against Royal Mail.
What if there wasn't enough overtime?
What if your manager didn't like you?
What if the overtime in your office goes to the same old faces?
Should you be less senior?

datasaint · Post by **datasaint** » 04 Apr 2017, 20:42

You're framing the questions all towards the idea seniority is a right, not something you earn.

In most other businesses you have to shown willing/give back to the company to get promoted/enjoy a higher pay etc. Yet somehow in RM simply joining the company before another person bestows you with all this, it's bonkers and is foremost why an attitude of apathy/mediocrity exists because people know how to do as little as possible to get by safe in the knowledge there's no one to challenge them.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 04 Apr 2017, 20:52

Postie A is a disabled single mother unable to do overtime and has worked part time at 30 hours per week for the last 100 weeks.
Postie B is either 1) an able bodied man able to do overtime and has worked part time at 24 hours per week for the last 100.5 weeks. WTC makes up the wage.
or 2) an able bodied man able to do overtime and has worked part time at 1 hour per week for the last 100.5 weeks.
Postie B is senior.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 04 Apr 2017, 20:58

Since when was working overtime in any way an indicator of willingness to "give back" to the company?
As far as I'm aware people work overtime for the money, the cash , the ££££, not some imaginary company loyalty and some of the guys who do the most hours are also some of the laziest members of staff. What would you do for the guys who work overtime and don't claim, surely they are showing real company loyalty and should get double seniority points on your scale.

datasaint · Post by **datasaint** » 04 Apr 2017, 21:22

fishtank wrote:What would you do for the guys who work overtime and don't claim, surely they are showing real company loyalty and should get double seniority points on your scale.

Well more fool them. Under hours = seniority people would willingly book OT and not come in early or stay out late for free like lemons.

Chelseablue · Post by **Chelseablue** » 05 Apr 2017, 15:32

How does the ft/ pt pairs resign work ? Does the ftimer pick first then pt , ft ,pt etc ?

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 05 Apr 2017, 17:19

The way the business is going they don't really want posties to work overtime. They want managers to do it to keep the costs down!!

Chelseablue · Post by **Chelseablue** » 06 Apr 2017, 15:00

My partners office and ours is completely run on overtime , 5 day week dosent exist much in our place, or a work life balance.

pad · Post by **pad** » 07 Apr 2017, 00:55

Duties are allocated by contract hours in PSP, overtime is irrelevant, if a manager indicates that you will be given preference for advancement to ANY other duty for performing overtime or over duties then that individual may be guilty of a discriminatory practice as outlined above. Seniority is only defensible in equal same hourage duties, certainly in Deliveries I believe in rotating sets where 4/5/6 OPG's moved from one duty to the next week on week, management stopped that to reduce training and brought in fixed duties, which cut training costs short term but created mayhem when Reserves of D/O Floats moved on.

riddler2k · Post by **riddler2k** » 18 Apr 2017, 16:27

Dutys in our office are usually given to the last person to go on long term sick, they are given under the banner of "DDA" but it usually isnt the case and none of these people are reviewed to see if they are well enough to do a normal job after 3 months or whatever the period is, if a rubbish job comes up then it will go up on the board and anyone can pick, if a senior guy leaves then his job will not ever get advertised, jobs in our office are so uneven some can be more that an hour and a half longer delivery for a job that should be the same, is this just our office ?

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 18 Apr 2017, 20:06

riddler2k wrote: jobs in our office are so uneven some can be more that an hour and a half longer delivery for a job that should be the same, is this just our office ?

How many of them longer walks previously had "runners" on them?

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 19 Apr 2017, 13:31

SpacePhoenix wrote:
riddler2k wrote: jobs in our office are so uneven some can be more that an hour and a half longer delivery for a job that should be the same, is this just our office ?
How many of them longer walks previously had "runners" on them?

The length of walks are not determined by how long one person takes to do them.
The problem lies almost certainly with Pegasus/Georoute and the information contained within the A+ not being accurate or up to date.
An incorrect packet count and attendance calls will also give an unequal walk.

riddler2k · Post by **riddler2k** » 19 Apr 2017, 19:53

We had a planner in about 5 years ago and left our office in a mess with uneven jobs, we were entitled to a revision and a full office resign almost 2 years ago but the rep decided against it with no consultation with the members, it makes no sense.