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Royal Mail's proposals in the current pay, pensions and change strategy negotiations

Postal workers discussion forum. Discuss the day to day life in a Blue Shirt.
postslippete
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Royal Mail's proposals in the current pay , pensions and change strategy negotiations

Post by postslippete »

dingo wrote:
What have Royal Mail put on the table

Removal of Area Reps

RRIS removed unless the rentention or recruitment in an area demands and they don't think it does. Those being paid RRIS have a range from £5 to £35

Removal of TPM , PHG , LGV , Election payments , Driving allowance , Dawn payments and any legacy bonus money

Monthly pay

Royal Mail automatically want to issue stage 1 & 2s warning.

Apart from the proposal to not pay sick leave for first 3 days they will only pay full sick pay for a maximum 8 weeks and half pay for a maximum of 8 weeks. This is only for people who have been employed for more than 4 years. For employees who have less than 4 years their sick leave is less.

For a new starts Royal Mail want to reduce from 90% of the pay rate to 80. They will not pay these shift allowances and only them single rate of overtime. They will no longer go to the full rate after 18 months up to 3 years.

In terms of the Strategy

It is the multiple buddle delivery model where the first 90% of sequencing will not be sorted into the frame and will mean later starts.

They also want Team working so you cover sick leave , rest days , annual leave within your team with no overtime .

They want too have you work more hours at christmas and less hours in the summer.

Plus they want to introduce a concept called heavy and light days. So say on a Monday , Weds and Friday you will be deliver all the traffic and on a Tuesday , Thursday and Saturday you will only deliver 1st Class and parcels which will cut jobs as the only way a full timer can keep a job if they do two deliveries on the lighter day.


There are various other things such as data capture , MTSF cuts etc which are all further attacks on our conditions.

The line in the sand has been drawn your have to decide whether you support your union or you accept Royal Mail's proposals ?

Thanks for the update dingo

I hope Royal Mail don't get rid of our Area Rep because he is very knowledgeable and experienced. Far more than our local Union reps are. What Royal Mail are doing is trying to break the organisation and effectiveness of the CWU. I don't agree with the removal of election payments without giving something back in return, and if its for working overtime instead, well they have just shot themselves in the foot with that one with their bonkers idea of 'team working'. The idea that you cover sick leave, rest days and A/L with no overtime. That only works if you have a delivery manager that is prepared to deliver it all because no one (and I mean no one) is going to work for nothing. Even the early starters and break skippers are not going to be taking extra loops if someone else isn't!!
On the face of it, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world.
daveyeff
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Royal Mail's proposals in the current pay , pensions and change strategy negotiations

Post by daveyeff »

you know, just looking at those proposals that RM want to bring in (that's if they are really true)....why would a big employer such as RM want to deliberately demoralise the workforce?? a happy workforce is a more productive one. if all this garbage was to come in we would all do absolutely f*** all more for them other than our regular hours. they are not doing themselves any favours. I think its all shite.
TheTrolleyMan
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Royal Mail's proposals in the current pay , pensions and change strategy negotiations

Post by TheTrolleyMan »

Why all the silence from THE CWU ?
Darren Bent
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Royal Mail's proposals in the current pay , pensions and change strategy negotiations

Post by Darren Bent »

It is probably be better to work for Darth Vader and Sith Empire building the death star than these new proposals for Royal Mail.
Aquarius
MAIL CENTRES/PROCESSING
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Royal Mail's proposals in the current pay , pensions and change strategy negotiations

Post by Aquarius »

Darren Bent wrote:It is probably be better to work for Darth Vader and Sith Empire building the death star than these new proposals for Royal Mail.
Well there would plenty of guaranteed overtime.

The death benefits would be a problem right enough.

:cool
worktotime
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Royal Mail's proposals in the current pay , pensions and change strategy negotiations

Post by worktotime »

team covering a/l , sick , days off with no overtime you cant get your own done never mind any more , :crazy: yer right is that another name for lapsing ? so what about the cover men who cover dutys on days off ? do these people at the top know most offices are run on o/t and people working there days off otherwise the company would go down quicker than the titanic , stop the o/t and the work comes back simple . :wave
ScousePostie
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Royal Mail's proposals in the current pay , pensions and change strategy negotiations

Post by ScousePostie »

There's not a day that goes by where there's full timers are in early. Only recently, one full timer apparently in at 5:30am to prep D2Ds for the whole week. WHY!? Because his single slot fitting allows him to work them all off over the week. A good idea, but why bother coming in an hour early to do this, especially when the MAJORITY of us are finishing on a Saturday by 12:30pm and are all darting out the door for an early finish. I've no problem if someone wants to prep a weeks worth of D2Ds but why do it for nothing? At least if you're finishing early on a Saturday and spend time prepping them on Saturday afternoon you're getting paid for doing it. Otherwise, do them as they should be done - 20% per day, and prep them within your hours, don't come in early and do them! This applies for part timers too. Too many times I hear, 'I'll come in early in the morning to prep D2Ds'! Madness! It just gives DOM a reason to lapse three walks on Tuesday and Saturday, and two on a Monday.

PHGs and union rep are telling us that the office is half full by 6am, and some are even on the IPS at this time. In fact, DOM wants to take walks out the office and union rep has pulled the usual early starters to request they start doing their job as it should be done. Apparently some of the responses was like banging his head against a brick wall :arrrghhh .
gb93
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Royal Mail's proposals in the current pay , pensions and change strategy negotiations

Post by gb93 »

Let's keep it simple.
Year 1, 2.5% pay rise 1 hour off the working week for full timers.
All the old legacy payments incuding monthly bonus & payment for election material ceases.
Year 2, 2.5% pay rise 1 hour off the working week
Move on to monthly pay
Year 3, 2.5% pay rise 2 hours off the working week
Down to a 30 minute paid meal relief
All the other rubbish is a utter no no
And just to be clear the delivery supplement & xmas bonus stays
This ain't no baseball game, you get only one chance and you blew it.
Martin Walsh
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Royal Mail's proposals in the current pay , pensions and change strategy negotiations

Post by Martin Walsh »

TheTrolleyMan wrote:Why all the silence from THE CWU ?
What silence ? The CWU have provided those slides from what Royal Mail presented in the negotiations over the last two weeks.

There was a National Briefing yesterday at the TUC and every Branch , every Area Rep , senior Reps and Two local reps per Branch got all of this information.

It is all over the CWU various Branch sites and their is communications going out . Every Branch has been told they have to organise meetings in the Work Place , plus their is a petition which has been sent to Branch's to get as many members to fill out to oppose Royal Mail's plans.

Royal Mail claim that under a consultation titled the big conversation where managers have gone into workplaces across the U.K. And they claim they have met with 70 thousand staff and that the basis of what Royal Mail's proposals are is what employees asked for ! Now we all know this is bullshit but that is what they claiming.

Hence why we need to put the pressure back on the employer and support the CWU.

We do not need to at this moment rush into a strike ballot , the pension won't be changed to April 2018 and we are still in negotiations. If we do need to ballot then September when the volumes kick back in is much better time for a ballot. Of course if they took executive action on either the pay , sick leave or breaking National Agreements we might have to ballot earlier but at the moment the battle is on who has the support of the work force Royal Mail or the CWU ?
Martin Walsh
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Royal Mail's proposals in the current pay , pensions and change strategy negotiations

Post by Martin Walsh »

gb93 wrote:Let's keep it simple.
Year 1, 2.5% pay rise 1 hour off the working week for full timers.
All the old legacy payments incuding monthly bonus & payment for election material ceases.
Year 2, 2.5% pay rise 1 hour off the working week
Move on to monthly pay
Year 3, 2.5% pay rise 2 hours off the working week
Down to a 30 minute paid meal relief
All the other rubbish is a utter no no
And just to be clear the delivery supplement & xmas bonus stays
That is not on the table and in my view your proposal would not be acceptable.

Tell the person on £35 RRIS or £20 PHG or the LGV , or TPM or have a legacy bonus you can have a pay cut ?

Monthly pay is not something the union could agree unless like Professional drivers they got an significant increase in basic pay as a result the Drivers Directive.

Remember what Royal Mail have put on the table is

All trails in the first year , as well as every office having to improve efficiency by 3% and all the changes agreed for just 40 mins off the Working Week with no pay rise.

In year 2 only after every office has achieved 3% effirency and have agreed a further 3% that the new delivery model is deployed including seasonal variations you get an hour off the working week.

In year 3 after all the changes being deployed you get 2 hours again no pay rise.

You do not start to concede with Royal Mail at this point that is the road to disaster you start applying the pressure.

I certainly would oppose and lead the opposition to your proposal !

In year 3 after all
daveyeff
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Royal Mail's proposals in the current pay , pensions and change strategy negotiations

Post by daveyeff »

TheTrolleyMan wrote:Why all the silence from THE CWU ?
just what I was thinking
citypostie
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Royal Mail's proposals in the current pay , pensions and change strategy negotiations

Post by citypostie »

dingo wrote:
gb93 wrote:Let's keep it simple.
Year 1, 2.5% pay rise 1 hour off the working week for full timers.
All the old legacy payments incuding monthly bonus & payment for election material ceases.
Year 2, 2.5% pay rise 1 hour off the working week
Move on to monthly pay
Year 3, 2.5% pay rise 2 hours off the working week
Down to a 30 minute paid meal relief
All the other rubbish is a utter no no
And just to be clear the delivery supplement & xmas bonus stays
That is not on the table and in my view your proposal would not be acceptable.

Tell the person on £35 RRIS or £20 PHG or the LGV , or TPM or have a legacy bonus you can have a pay cut ?

Monthly pay is not something the union could agree unless like Professional drivers they got an significant increase in basic pay as a result the Drivers Directive.

Remember what Royal Mail have put on the table is

All trails in the first year , as well as every office having to improve efficiency by 3% and all the changes agreed for just 40 mins off the Working Week with no pay rise.

In year 2 only after every office has achieved 3% effirency and have agreed a further 3% that the new delivery model is deployed including seasonal variations you get an hour off the working week.

In year 3 after all the changes being deployed you get 2 hours again no pay rise.

You do not start to concede with Royal Mail at this point that is the road to disaster you start applying the pressure.

I certainly would oppose and lead the opposition to your proposal !

In year 3 after all
I agree that we should tell royal mail to do one with all the proposals but i seem to remember when the d2d money went delivery staff had the majority vote and got that agreed to supposedly. If royal mail make some concessions and its put to the members that all those legacy payments plus the election payments go in return for a better deal for everyone, out of interest how many delivery staff get any of the payments apart from the election ones that would go? If they voted to lose d2d payments i dont think theyll vote against that. Same with s/a overtime, how many in delivery offices ever get that? In 24 years on delivery ive never had a sniff of it
TheTrolleyMan
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Royal Mail's proposals in the current pay , pensions and change strategy negotiations

Post by TheTrolleyMan »

Where's the latest news on the pension changes ?
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POSTMAN
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Royal Mail's proposals in the current pay , pensions and change strategy negotiations

Post by POSTMAN »

Added to 1st post
PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE THIS POST IF YOU WANT TO REPLY TO IT
Essex Amalgamated Branch wrote:Dear Colleagues
Royal Mail Pay / Pensions / Shorter Working Week negotiations update. 29.03.17

Let your Branch apologise upfront for the length of this email. Whilst it may be lengthy, we believe that it is important to give you as thorough a report on the current negotiating positions as possible & all the elements being discussed.

Terry Pullinger (DGSP – Deputy General Secretary Postal) opened the briefing indicating that we should recognise that this was the start of negotiations and as such positions will change going forward. It was also stated that all the elements of Royal Mail’s ‘wish list’ have been mentioned by Royal Mail in discussion in some form in the last couple of months and these would be on their agenda at some point.

He also said “that the 4 Pillars of Security (CWU Proposals) is the Union taking the issues to the employer” and that with the onset of the digital world & competition “waiting until 2019 will be too late”. Also that by submitting our proposals has ‘drawn the employers position out’ on all matters relating to our future employment in Royal Mail.

Terry also stated that the “current thinking of management is shocking” in relation to the discussions and that “Royal Mail are intent on maintaining profit levels to pay the shareholders through the same old post-privatisation thinking of reducing employee headcount & attacking our terms & conditions which also includes our pensions”.
A number of slides were used for the presentation and below are elements of these:
Royal Mail’s pay discussions agenda (what Royal Mail want);
  • Improve financial efficiency by 2-3%
    New structure to starters and new employee’s pay (see ‘A’ below)
    Removal of old outdated legacy payments (see ‘B’ below)
    Removal of duplication of pay, such as election payments
    Move to monthly pay
    Restructure the Xmas payment to provide incentive to deliver Xmas
    Restructure the MTSF Agreement (all worse terms – pay protection, etc)
    Review both RRIS & TPM
    Increase the emphasis on professionalising our Agreements through simplification & removal of duplication
    A new process around trials / pilots (see “C” below)
    More effective ways of dealing with attendance warnings & dismissals (see “D” below)
    Realigning the IR Framework to fit the business network towards change at pace
    Seek to trial ways of removing the need for absorption lapsing (CWU agree this in principle)
    Develop an overall approach to data & technology
    Trial different approaches to a new employee proposition
    Delivery of the current activity intended to support & underpin an improving business

A - New structure to starters and new employee’s pay
The following to be applied to all grades (OPGs, engineers, etc)
Recruitment rate reduced from the present 90% to 80% of the hourly rate
Mid point pay rate reduced from the present 95% to 90% of the hourly rate
Mid pay point increased from the present 6 months to 18 months
Maximum pay rate after 3 years – currently 1 year
Monthly pay
Sick pay - first 3 days unpaid
- Year 1, SSP only
- Year 2, 4 weeks full & 4 weeks half pay
- Year 3, 6 weeks full & 6 weeks half pay
- Year 4 ongoing, 8 weeks full & 8 weeks half pay
7 day working - no premiums for weekend working
A single overtime rate including any contractual overtime (S/A)
Holiday entry entitlement 20 days (22.5 days at present), after 5 years 23.5 (as now)
Movement to different shifts to cover peak periods (total flexibility)
London weighting only (where relevant). No other allowance or supplement (e.g. function payments)

B - Removal of old outdated legacy payments
2000 Driver’s allowance
2000 PHG allowance
PBS / ICS bonus
Time bonus
Road Network Scheme
2007 early shift protection
2007 Way Forward protection
LA1 Supplement
Pay Protection
Network 2007
Reserved Rights Night shift (both higher PHG rate & protected pensionability)
LGV allowance

C - A new process around trials / pilots
Currently any trial or pilot that is introduced, does so on the basis of adhering to safeguards built into a Terms of Reference or Agreement that ensures the following; controlled implementation, timeframe for the trial / pilot, joint (RM & CWU) input, joint evaluation and jointly agreeing the outputs from these initiatives.
Royal Mail want to remove all of these safeguards & CWU involvement below national level. They want to introduce initiatives that will only be trialled for a maximum of 90 days and at the end of this period, if Royal Mail think they are warranted, roll out the changes nationally. No discussions or negotiations with your Union – Royal Mail will introduce ‘new ways of working’ as and when they see fit.

D - More effective ways of dealing with attendance warnings & dismissals
Royal Mail want to do away with the current process, whereby members are entitled to representation at all stages of the Attendance Procedure. Royal Mail want to introduce a much harsher approach – all reviews which are triggered will be automatically issued (some say they are already). This means that there will be no point in the procedure where mitigation will be taken into account.

Following Terry’s presentation a number of presentations were given by National Officers of the Union – these were by Ray Ellis (Assistant Secretary Postal), Davie Robertson (Assistant Secretary Processing / Logistics) & Mark Baulch (Assistant Secretary Elect Outdoor).
Ray Ellis gave a presentation on what Royal Mail want as part of the negotiations, also the CWUs points for negotiation. These points are below;
Royal Mail’s points
Simplification of agreements (CWU agree this)
Trials (as identified above)

IR Framework – Royal Mail want to remove all CWU Area Representatives. This would mean that all issues would be raised at local level and then progressed directly to national level – obviously, the support structure of the Area Reps would be lost for good if we allow this. It is crystal clear why Royal Mail want to dispose of the Area Rep position – these are the Reps that support the local Reps, ensure agreements are adhered too, challenge the bullying & intimidation tactics of managers and continually cause Royal Mail most problems.
Compliance of agreements (CWU agree this and it was pointed out that it would be good if managers would follow this mantra locally)
RRIS & TPM
MTSF (as identified above)
Attendance (as identified above)
CWU’s points
Expansion of legal protections in the Agenda for Growth
Annual Leave
Effects on Royal Mail functions (Delivery, Processing & Logistics)

Both Mark Baulch & Davie Robertson reiterated points which have been made in previous communications. In that the ‘re-design of the pipeline’ in Royal Mail’s terms meant that everything moved back timewise by a number of hours.

What Royal Mail want is a later LAT (latest acceptance time) for collected mail. Royal Mail see this as an integral part of dealing with competition, by getting into the emerging market of rapid / next day delivery of items ordered online.

However, should the LAT be pushed back this will have a negative impact on all functions; Processing – duty attendance patterns, start & finish times would potentially change by several hours. Logistics / Distribution - duty attendance patterns, start & finish times would potentially change by several hours. Additionally, there would be the need for less vehicles and therefore drivers. Delivery - duty attendance patterns, start & finish times would potentially change by several hours, with probable last letter delivery times in towns & city’s being around 5pm.

It was also indicated that in delivery, Royal Mail want to introduce ‘self-managed groups’. In essence, what this means is that deliveries will be grouped together. Where members of these groups go on annual or sick leave, this group will perform the delivery between themselves. These groups will take ownership of all work requirements for these grouped deliveries. For those of you who have been in Royal Mail for some time and prior to 1996, this may sound familiar – Royal Mail tried to introduce, as it was known at the time ‘Team-working’ during 1996 and formed part of the Employee Agenda dispute. Obviously, this was defeated, however what it does show, is that Royal Mail are devoid of new ways of thinking and revert to ‘old style’ thinking and methods.

Pay & SWW (Shorter Working Week)
Additional to all the above, Royal Mail have said that the introduction of any element of a SWW (Shorting Working Week) and / or pay increase must be self-funding. In other words – we have to give up something to get something.

Pensions
It is important to recognise that the CWUs pension proposals are for ALL Royal Mail employees represented by the CWU, no matter if you’ve been employed 1 week, 1 year, 10, 20 or 30 years and above. It is the CWUs belief that we should all be treated the same and that we should all have the opportunity to secure a decent income when we retire.

A presentation on the CWUs pension proposals was given by an independent actuary – Hilary Salt (FIA). She has been employed by the CWU as an advisor on the pension’s issue. The presentation used several slides which were full of facts and figures and highlighted the problems Royal Mail will face funding the pension schemes going forward. In short – Royal Mail’s current pension contribution is approximately 17% of pensionable pay, we pay 6%. Royal Mail actually currently pay approximately 30% (£400m per year), however, the difference (13%) is paid for from the current surplus in the pension fund’s assets (pension fund surpluses can’t legally be kept in those schemes as surpluses – they can however be used to offset employers contributions, as Royal Mail are doing at present).

It is anticipated that this surplus will run out sometime in 2018 and after the revaluation (every three years this is done and employers contributions are based on this valuation) of the scheme around that time, Royal Mail’s contributions will rise to over £1b per year – clearly this is not going to be affordable.

At present there are several types of pension schemes in Royal Mail based on differing criteria, these are;
Defined Benefits – pre 2008 (DB – you know what you’re going to get as a pension) and Royal Mail takes all the risk in maintaining the pension fund.
Defined Contribution – 2008 onwards (you know what you’re going to pay, but you won’t know what you’re going to get until you retire). Pension scheme members (us) also take all the risk in maintaining the pension fund.
The Defined Benefit scheme is far superior to the Defined Contribution scheme as it gives you better knowledge of what to expect in retirement. By contrast, the Defined Contribution scheme doesn’t allow you to plan ahead as you don’t know what your pension benefits will be until you retire. Incidentally, these will be far lower than what you would receive from a Defined Benefit scheme.

The CWUs proposals (legally based on a Defined Benefits scheme) removes some of the risk from Royal Mail and places it on to the pension scheme members. However, how this works is that the fund will be valued annually (not 3 years as at present) and if the fund performs well then pension benefits are increased by the current RPI figure (it’s currently 3.1% and is generally 1% above CPI annual figures) or if the scheme is in surplus the benefits could be above RPI. Should the scheme not perform so well, then any increase could be RPI minus a percentage or even no increase at all – and this is the risk element placed onto the scheme members. The scheme assets remain relatively constant and Royal Mails contributions will remain around the current 17% figure of pensionable pay – Royal Mail can afford to pay this amount.

Royal Mail are currently considering these proposals. It is interesting to note though, that other trade unions are watching how these proposals progress as this type of pension scheme may assist other companies facing similar pension issues. Financial institutions such as; The Financial Times, etc are also watching how this develops, indeed many have looked at and spoken favourably about the CWUs proposed changes, with a small number giving a negative view – namely Union bashing entities.

I’m sure you’ll all agree that the pension’s issue is a very complicated matter indeed and to quote and print all the facts & figures and to try to make sense of them in this message would be very difficult to do – on this note, we believe it is better to wait for a simple explanation to be constructed which states all the facts & figures and then this can be forwarded to you. Hopefully though, the above will give you an insight into the complexities of the pension schemes and the CWUs proposals.

In closing, we must also highlight to you the disingenuous ways Royal Mail carry out their discussions & negotiations. The CWUs National Officers involved in these processes were informed by Royal Mail that they had spoken to approximately 70,000 of their employees asking what they would want to see from these negotiations – Royal Mail’s ‘wish list’ apparently is a reflection of that feedback!! In this Branch we are not aware of any single individual being spoken to by Royal Mail about what they would want to see from any future pay deal – this is also the position in other Branches around the country. Perhaps it was 70,000 managers that were spoken too??

In is vitally important that the ‘4 Pillars of Security petitions’ sent to each workplace nationally is supported & signed by as many of us as possible so that we can counter-act Royal Mails ludicrous claims.

SUPPORT & SIGN THE 4 PILLARS OF SECURITY PETITION and get you Reps to then send it to CWUHQ.
Mike Newport
Communications
Essex Amalgamated Branch
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
Martin Walsh
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Royal Mail's proposals in the current pay , pensions and change strategy negotiations

Post by Martin Walsh »

Talks are on going on the Pension proposal and the CWU have not yet rejected the union's pension proposal. Royal Mail have said they want to cut the costs which they pay to pensions from 400 million to 325 due to the national insurance contributions costs under the changes last year.

Royal Mail have been shocked at the levels of members who have responded to pension consultation. Remember there will not be any changes to your pension until the 31st March 2018.