CWU support of Jeremy Corbyn

[Tman]

These statistics are being used to justify abject failure. I know it, you know it, and the traditional labour core vote know it.
Even the Stoke win saw the Labour share of the vote decrease.
Corbyn tried to give it the big 'uns at the Scottish meeting over the weekend and merely came across as the petulant London "noble concepts over harsh reality" socialist who'd had a quick lesson from someone in the art of trying to look dynamic to the audience, and just ended up looking like the rather sad tired old man that he is.
Did he really think pushing his face into the journalist's when answering the question helped anything?

[dvbuk55]

These statistics are being used to justify abject failure. I know it, you know it, and the traditional labour core vote know it.
Even the Stoke win saw the Labour share of the vote decrease.
Corbyn tried to give it the big 'uns at the Scottish meeting over the weekend and merely came across as the petulant London "noble concepts over harsh reality" socialist who'd had a quick lesson from someone in the art of trying to look dynamic to the audience, and just ended up looking like the rather sad tired old man that he is.
Did he really think pushing his face into the journalist's when answering the question helped anything?

TBH Tman it looked like he was going to savage the guy for asking a simple question twice. Pity he doesn't show the same aggression when defence is being discussed

[baldrick]

These statistics are being used to justify abject failure. I know it, you know it, and the traditional labour core vote know it.
Even the Stoke win saw the Labour share of the vote decrease.

Exactly. That's what I was pointing out. Labour's vote has been declining steadily everywhere since the New Labour 'Project'. Labour lost almost every Parliamentary seat in Scotland in 2015. Before Corbyn became Leader.
There are lots and complex reasons for that. And they will have to be addressed whoever is Leader.

[Tman]

="baldrick
Exactly. That's what I was pointing out..

You've missed the point. The aptly-named "bye-election bounce" should have meant that the proverbial trained monkey in a red rosette should have taken that seat. After all, if elections were predictable (or as you've attempted, explainable) by statisticians then there'd be little point in holding them.
It's the same old inescapable base line...Corbyn is a disaster.

[fishtank]

These statistics are being used to justify abject failure. I know it, you know it, and the traditional labour core vote know it.
Even the Stoke win saw the Labour share of the vote decrease.

Exactly. That's what I was pointing out. Labour's vote has been declining steadily everywhere since the New Labour 'Project'. Labour lost almost every Parliamentary seat in Scotland in 2015. Before Corbyn became Leader.
There are lots and complex reasons for that. And they will have to be addressed whoever is Leader.

You and jet are not really getting this.
Whether you want to bury your head in the sand call the by election a "marginal" and continue to blame Blair almost 10 years after he f****d off but the bottom line is Corbyn isn't the answer to Labour's problems.

It's not rocket science, policies and principles without the power to implement them are no f***ing help to anyone.

[baldrick]

ft It might be 10 years since Blair departed to make his fortune, but the legacy of the New Labour project is still with us. 'Core Labour' voters expected more from a Labour Government but got the same market forces neo-liberal monetarist policies as under the Tories. And Blair took us into adventurist wars behind the US.
People haven't forgotten.
And only a few days before the byelections Blair and Mandelson were sticking their oar in again, suggesting that Brexit could be revisited. Now I was against Brexit, but having had a referendum I accept the decision of the majority, even though I think it was wrong and they will come to regret it when the realities become clear.
It seems to be media concensus that a lot of core voters in labour's heartlands became alienated from Labour because of their support for staying in the EU.
Corbyn was critical of the EU but accepted Labour policy. The other leadership contenders were much more enthusiastic about remaining in the EU.
If one of Corbyn's critics were to replace him as Leader they would be far more likely to want to revisit Brexit.
Is that going to make Labour more electable with the disaffected former Labour voters?

[FinishOnTime]

ft It might be 10 years since Blair departed to make his fortune, but the legacy of the New Labour project is still with us. 'Core Labour' voters expected more from a Labour Government but got the same market forces neo-liberal monetarist policies as under the Tories. And Blair took us into adventurist wars behind the US.
People haven't forgotten.
And only a few days before the byelections Blair and Mandelson were sticking their oar in again, suggesting that Brexit could be revisited. Now I was against Brexit, but having had a referendum I accept the decision of the majority, even though I think it was wrong and they will come to regret it when the realities become clear.
It seems to be media concensus that a lot of core voters in labour's heartlands became alienated from Labour because of their support for staying in the EU.
Corbyn was critical of the EU but accepted Labour policy. The other leadership contenders were much more enthusiastic about remaining in the EU.
If one of Corbyn's critics were to replace him as Leader they would be far more likely to want to revisit Brexit.
Is that going to make Labour more electable with the disaffected former Labour voters?

But all the figures say only a small proportion of Leave voters would ever vote Labour. There's a whole 48% of the electorate who's views are not being represented by anyone other than the LDs. If Corbyn had in any way campaigned enthusiastically to Remain, and/or then effectively oppposed the Government's Brexit bill in Parliament, he may have attracted some of their votes.

As it is, he's attracting nobody.

[Tman]

So it's Blair and Mandy's fault now? Not Storm Doris any more, or the local hospital closure, or Corbyn's long-standing hatred of nuclear power?
Or may be this idiot's right?-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39102703" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Must be someone's fault, eh?

[dvbuk55]

So it's Blair and Mandy's fault now? Not Storm Doris any more, or the local hospital closure, or Corbyn's long-standing hatred of nuclear power?
Or may be this idiot's right?-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39102703" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

John McDonnell friend of the IRA. Wonder how ex-servicemen who served in NI would go on with the likes of him and Corbyn in power - yeah what am I talking about they're never going to be in power

[jetblack]

Yes Copeland was a defeat. But one battle is not the end of the war. Good job Tman and dvbuk weren't around at the time of Dunkirk.

Au contrere Baldrick, au contrere son.

[dvbuk55]

Yes Copeland was a defeat. But one battle is not the end of the war. Good job Tman and dvbuk weren't around at the time of Dunkirk.

Au contrere Baldrick, au contrere son.

I don't know if Tman ever served but I can guarantee you and baldrick didn't, had you done so you wouldn't consider that Corbyns policies and lack of leadership would be worthy of any ones loyalty.

[fishtank]

The "New Labour Project" wasn't a project baldrick, it was a reflection of the changing face of the "working classes". There are very few of the industrial working class left, Labour's core voters are not miners living in social housing and taking a bath in front of a coal fire, they are aspirational, they believe in capitalism even if it is flawed, they want to own things and they want to feel safe and secure, about the only thing left that tells them apart from Tories is that they don't necessarily believe you have to screw everyone else over to get what you want. Labour realised that 20 years ago and somehow seems to have forgotten it. Corbyn's tactic seems to be rather than understand that basic fact he's simply going to tell people they're wrong and he's right....on everything.

As for that often cited "illegal war" it seems to be a real issue with some socialists, refusing to take collective responsibility bearing in mind the whole movement is supposed to be about the collective. Blair didn't take us into any dodgy wars, we did that, I remember because I was there and you could hear a pin drop in a room full of dissenters if you could fill a room with them that is, almost every politician supported the Iraq war (at the time ) as did the vast majority of the public and it wasn't because we believed a dodgy dossier, it was because we had seen with our own eyes that maniac march into Kuwait once already and watched him use VX gas ( which is incidentally classed as a weapon of mass destruction ) on thousands of Kurds. The Iraq war itself was not "wrong" even if the motivation behind it from certain parties was questionable and you have to be able to separate the two issues otherwise it's just lazy thinking.

You can blame Blair ( I have no time for him personally ) which is probably almost justifiable but what you can't do is blame everybody who voted for the Iraq war and call them Blairites just because they were around when Blair was.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Yes Copeland was a defeat. But one battle is not the end of the war. Good job Tman and dvbuk weren't around at the time of Dunkirk.

Au contrere Baldrick, au contrere son.

I don't know if Tman ever served but I can guarantee you and baldrick didn't, had you done so you wouldn't consider that Corbyns policies and lack of leadership would be worthy of any ones loyalty.

That's a very sweeping statement, easily refuted https://www.prruk.org/why-jeremy-corbyn ... etractors/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Plus have you forgot I have publicly stated I voted for Corbyn, and I served in NI, FRY and FI.

[fishtank]

Blairites- a term that used to apply to Tony Blair's inner circle and closest allies but now appears to be used to describe absolutely anyone from any walk of life who criticises Jeremy Corbyn.

It's funny how definitions change and it shows that it's not only the right who use media manipulation techniques.

[dvbuk55]

That's a very sweeping statement, easily refuted https://www.prruk.org/why-jeremy-corbyn ... etractors/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Plus have you forgot I have publicly stated I voted for Corbyn, and I served in NI, FRY and FI.

Easily refuted by the man shown below, the author of the article, whose character seems to leave a lot to be desired IMO.

BBC News - Anti-Afghan War Awol soldier Joe Glenton jailed
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8551245.stm
5 Mar 2010 - L/Cpl Joe Glenton, 27, from York, joined the Army in 2004 but absconded in 2007 after serving with the Royal Logistic Corps in Afghanistan.

As for boasting you voted for Corbyn