rep helping non union members ?

[ballsup]

IMO fishtank is right, It is a whole different thing being represented by a rep and getting advice from a rep.

If you have faced anything major in your time with royal mail, stage 3, conduct code ect you should know the value of a good rep at your side during the meetings. Getting advice from a rep and going into meetings on your own will more than likely have a different outcome.

By giving advice to the non member the rep might just turn that person into a paying member of the union which is also the job of a rep.

[WOBBLY]

Non union members do not receive union representation, neither the OP nor myself said they did, What they will get from me is advice and support. Union representation is a whole different ball game.

Ok fair enough, I misread then.

When you say advice and support, is this based on training given by the union? It's a fine line between 'helping/advising' someone as a colleague to 'helping/advising' someone as a union rep.........

[hampshireman]

Non union members do not receive union representation, neither the OP nor myself said they did, What they will get from me is advice and support. Union representation is a whole different ball game.

Ok fair enough, I misread then.

When you say advice and support, is this based on training given by the union? It's a fine line between 'helping/advising' someone as a colleague to 'helping/advising' someone as a union rep.........

I think that advice and support is what you would hopefully give anyone.

Does it matter whether you are the Rep or not?

I give people advice and support ... and I am not a Union Rep.

[jetblack]

OK - let me put it another way. Supposing that I were the type of person that did not believe in trade unionism - I remember the winter of discontent/striking never got anybody anywhere/why should I pay subs to people that are no use anyway etc etc etc.
If i were such a person, then when I did have problems in my job, I can assure you that I would not even consider asking a Union rep for advice. I would view it as hypocritical in the extreme. I might ask colleagues, or CAB, or come on here - but I would not, in view of my standing aversion to all things Union, ask a rep.

However, if I did indeed feel that I might, in my particular circumstance, only get the advice and understanding that I am truly requiring from a CWU representative - do you know what I'd do ? - I'd swallow my pride, admit to (myself) my mistake and I'd pay my £3 a week to the f***ing union.

Like I should have all along.

[korky]

50/50 office split?
if rep helping non-members hinders them helping paid members issues then i'd go to area rep and explain otherwise let the rep help whoever if they got the time.
Don't forget that they may be complaining about a problem that a member may have same but too intimidated to speak out?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

An injury to one, is an injury to all - unless you are not in a Union ?

[Tman]

Why doesn't the rep just give a bland sort of answer giving some generalised info, and then say that if the questioner wants a more specific answer or further help then the next step would be to join the union?
Not going to win many union converts if the rep plays the old pompous "zipped mouth" routine with those yet to join.

[WOBBLY]

Non union members do not receive union representation, neither the OP nor myself said they did, What they will get from me is advice and support. Union representation is a whole different ball game.

Ok fair enough, I misread then.

When you say advice and support, is this based on training given by the union? It's a fine line between 'helping/advising' someone as a colleague to 'helping/advising' someone as a union rep.........

I think that advice and support is what you would hopefully give anyone.

Does it matter whether you are the Rep or not?

I give people advice and support ... and I am not a Union Rep.

You miss my point What I'm saying is that if the union rep wants to advise people on stuff he'd do if he wasn't a rep then fine. If he's advising them using knowledge thats been gained from training provided by the union then thats where the line should be drawn and the application form given out!

[ballsup]

A rep gains knowledge through personal experience as well as through the CWU. I've been on the job 25 years and gained a lot of knowledge about the way the attendance procedure and the conduct code works because I have been through both a number of times, I have gained the knowledge by being represented by very good reps as well as talking to other more senior members.

I have been a rep just over 2 years and I've been on two courses run by the union, would you be ok with me advising non union members with the 23 years experience before I became a rep and saving what I learned on the two courses for the paying members?

I am playing devils advocate slightly because my branch operates a no retrospective representation policy which means you won't get representation unless you were a member before the issue you need representation for occurred and I would be brought into branch to explain my actions if I represented or advised a non union member about a case. Talking to other reps other branches operate a different policy and allow representation if a person joins the union.

Is it possible that the branch membership is quite low so they have decided to give non members advice if asked in the hope that this will grow the membership? Is it possible that the rep from the MC doesn't know who is in the union?

Again advice from a rep is different from representation, would you be happy going into a court of law facing serious charges with the free advice of a barrister or would you pay the money and get the barrister in court with you? I know which I would do.

[fishtank]

I think the point is the ability to fork out £4 a week is not a sensible way to judge whether someone deserves help and support, leave it up to the rep to make the judgement call, you can be sure if he/she thinks they are having the piss taken out of them it won't happen twice.

[jetblack]

...my branch operates a no retrospective representation policy which means you won't get representation unless you were a member before the issue you need representation for occurred

Seeing as how you have brought up the issue of representation I have to say that your branch is absolutely spot on with this.

If you didn't have this policy it would be akin to someone being allowed to run around without car insurance - and then letting them buy insurance once they've had the crash.

We aren't running a charity here, this is a serious business.

If you aren't part of the solution you are a part of the problem.

[fishtank]

.If you aren't part of the solution you are a part of the problem.

What's the solution...or the problem?
Is that not just an empty sound bite?

[Jefferson Starfish]

There's a few at my DO who've joined the union just to get represented after they've got themselves suspended, and then promptly opted out of the union again after the rep worked hard on their behalf. Which is just taking the piss if you ask me.

[jetblack]

.If you aren't part of the solution you are a part of the problem.

What's the solution...or the problem?
Is that not just an empty sound bite?

The problem is ordinary working men and women not having the terms of/conditions of employment bestowed upon them from the Heavens above. They thereby have to devise means by which those rights will in fact be conferred upon them, as they rightfully should be.
Historically, the solution has been for them to join forces, show solidarity, organise themselves into trade unions and undertake industrial action when necessary.

I'm sorry, but I don't have much time for the free loaders. They are a part of the problem for me. If you believe otherwise then lets watch, for eg., what constructive role they play in the forthcoming pensions dispute.

[jetblack]

There's a few at my DO who've joined the union just to get represented after they've got themselves suspended, and then promptly opted out of the union again after the rep worked hard on their behalf. Which is just taking the piss if you ask me.

Yep - seen very similar myself.