Pension rip off action plan

[taurus88]

The sad fact is if the money ain't there, it ain't there. Is everyone in the country going on strike because the govt are putting up the age of retirement? Most companies are struggling with their pensions. How many of us took out endowment policies 20 yrs ago with promises of £X to come when it matures, only to get much much less when it does? When will people get it that RM can't just go cap in hand to the govt any more, we are a business who must stand on its own. Of course, we must try and get the best possible deal out of it (£750, doesn't really cut it) however facts are facts, pensions across the board are fxxcked. Like it or not, that's life. Striking is only going to damage business and our future jobs, I favour working to rule. Don't know how this can be construed as industrial action if it's not orchestrated. Many of us work to rule every day anyway. It's about time they realised just how long it takes to do the job now and working to time is the only way they will see the true picture. Yeah, it's gutting if you're gonna get £2k less a yr than you thought in retirement, but if you add up your contributions over the yrs you'll also get a picture of how much the company has contributed to it over those yrs, you're still better of in the pension. Doesn't stop it pxxsing you off though.

GOT TO SAY IT YOURE SPOT ON MATE

I actually disagree. This is a big problem with the capitalist world, and one that is getting worse. Big companies are doing their best to save money across the board, by taking relatively small amounts of money away from the poorer people in society so as to favour what Karl Marx would have described as the 'ruling class', the people at the top whose greed exceeds their power, and whose power unfortunately exceeds the great amounts of money they already have. This idea that they cannot afford to give us our small amounts of money is unfortunate propaganda, peddled by the media who are themselves owned by the same 'ruling class'. It is not that these people CANNOT afford to pay it, it is that they WILL NOT afford to pay it, not when they can take a few more sheckles for themselves, establishing themselves ever farther away from the increasingly bleak normality that your everyday Joe and Jane experience. In fact, this change in pensions tends to have its origins in a domino effect, whereby one company changes its pension policy to save money, and every other company then follows suit, citing 'changing industry standards' as the cause, rather than sheer greed.

We need to get away from the idea that there is not enough money to keep us, to pay us, or to stop us from living a comfortable life. There has always been enough money, unfortunately it is held by an increasingly small number of people who want to horde it away like dragons, in their mountain kingdoms. It is because of this greed that the sinew that holds our capitalist democracy together is starting to strain. As it does so, we are attacked every day by more and more propaganda, and are offered distractions to salve our growing discontent. It is very important that we stop believing them, because it is clear that they are liars. We have to ask ourselves, if we cannot even have the barest fundamentals necessary to live a decent life, why should we bother at all? Working until we are eighty years old in exchange for nothing? There's no happy ending if that's what we're being offered, and that's true for society as a whole. The old deal was that you work hard, you have a career that sustains you until you're old enough to retire in peace and prosperity. The new deal is that you work harder, in a life of growing temporariness that doesn't sustain you until you die.

Consider the point of that. Ask yourself why you would do that. Give me one good reason you should. Then wonder that so many people ARE doing just that. Ambling to the grave for the benefit of their masters.

GREAT GLORY COMRADE.

Maybe I'm just a capitalist pig, but while I'm not happy about the cut to our pensions, at the end of the day RM and the government are still GIVING us money explicitly for us to spend when we are no longer working. We still have the opportunity to put away in our own private piggy bank for such a time too. We shouldn't be relying on what our "masters" are giving us. One could say that this attitude of demanding the most possible from RM is just laying down to our masters in a different manner. But lets not get into that argument, I just felt the need to express my disdain for relying on the company for EVERYTHING. My opinion is there, I'm not gonna try and convince anyone it's the right opinion.

HAVING SAID ALL THAT, I'm not happy and I will most likely fight for it when the time comes. I still don't really understand what's going on to be perfectly honest, there's a difference between those registered pre 2008 and the rest of us? Still waiting for my letter from RM.

This isn't about capitalism or socialism, it's about the social divide that is established within any system that allows an under-class to develop and be exploited. The last decade has seen an unprecedented growth in the gap between the wealthy and the poor, yet we're still having more and more taken away from us, while our masters demand more and more - work harder, for less. Be more flexible, in fact, bend over backwards - in exchange, we will offer you ... nothing. Don't make the mistake of thinking that our capitalist democracy has become aught but a plutocracy, selling fables and hopes, while it steals away our possibilities and dreams.

[Krafty]

The same will happen when we went on strike before.

We'll go on strike two or three times and then the Union will agree with RM and we lose out again.

[mark.cup]

The little people need to stand up look at the French for inspiration they kicked off big time in 2010 over state pensions

[I_Take_My_Breaks]

Perhaps RM should ask for it's money back from the Government. A 13 year Pension holiday saved them a lot of money which should have gone into the pension pot.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/87061/ ... sion-break" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chelseablue]

We will as usual just shake our heads, the yellow bellies in your workplace wont even do that . Sometimes as humans were pretty pathetic that way.

[visigoth]

If decent pensions are good enough for our employees (MPs) they're good enough for us.

[Celtic Postman]

The sad fact is if the money ain't there, it ain't there. Is everyone in the country going on strike because the govt are putting up the age of retirement?
This isn't about putting up the age of retirement, this is about attacking the terms and conditions of the pension that you signed up for and paid into faithfully even whilst the company took it's Pension holiday a few years ago.

How many of us took out endowment policies 20 yrs ago with promises of £X to come when it matures, only to get much much less when it does?
When you took an endowment policy out 20 years ago it was found in the courts that you were in actual fact missold the policy and therefore received compensation for this and the companies were taken to task over this.
When I joined the Pension in the the old POSSS scheme I was promised a certain return when I retire only for this to be changed multiple times by the RM pension plan trustees. Will the same attitude be taken regarding the mis-selling of a pension fund?

Yeah, it's gutting if you're gonna get £2k less a yr than you thought in retirement, but if you add up your contributions over the yrs you'll also get a picture of how much the company has contributed to it over those yrs,

The company did not pay in anything more than you deserved into your pension.
These contributions were / are deferred wages that have been hard earned and fought to protect over the years by long serving members like myself who have stood on a picket line many many times to protect these term and conditions.

[jmcg]

celtic postman is absolutely correct...very nicely put !

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I am amazed so many don't think this is worth a fight. Well here is my tuppence.

Pensions are deferred wages if they reduce what they pay in you are getting a double pay cut. 1 when working, 2 when the pension matures you'll be paid less.

The government are musing on plans to reduce the state pension and make you retire later. So the more your RM pension is reduced the less disposable income you'll have, and the nearer the breadline you will be. Eat or Heat won't be a tagline for some of you, it will be a reality.

This is a stark issue and is nothing to do with the generosity of the employer. If RM demanded a 10% pay reduction and increased the walking speed for delivery you'd all be up in arms. Well, this is more than 10% pay cut when you take into account lost contributions, and the amount you'll get each week on retirement, and you'll be working harder just to make up the shortfall.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Perhaps RM should ask for it's money back from the Government. A 13 year Pension holiday saved them a lot of money which should have gone into the pension pot.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/87061/ ... sion-break" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unfortunately, the Government did pay it back. On privatisation, the Government took on the Pension Liabilities from RM to allow them to start afresh, so in effect, the Government will be paying for the Pension holiday.

[borgpicard]

The sad fact is if the money ain't there, it ain't there. Is everyone in the country going on strike because the govt are putting up the age of retirement? Most companies are struggling with their pensions. How many of us took out endowment policies 20 yrs ago with promises of £X to come when it matures, only to get much much less when it does? When will people get it that RM can't just go cap in hand to the govt any more, we are a business who must stand on its own. Of course, we must try and get the best possible deal out of it (£750, doesn't really cut it) however facts are facts, pensions across the board are fxxcked. Like it or not, that's life. Striking is only going to damage business and our future jobs, I favour working to rule. Don't know how this can be construed as industrial action if it's not orchestrated. Many of us work to rule every day anyway. It's about time they realised just how long it takes to do the job now and working to time is the only way they will see the true picture. Yeah, it's gutting if you're gonna get £2k less a yr than you thought in retirement, but if you add up your contributions over the yrs you'll also get a picture of how much the company has contributed to it over those yrs, you're still better of in the pension. Doesn't stop it pxxsing you off though.

GOT TO SAY IT YOURE SPOT ON MATE

I actually disagree. This is a big problem with the capitalist world, and one that is getting worse. Big companies are doing their best to save money across the board, by taking relatively small amounts of money away from the poorer people in society so as to favour what Karl Marx would have described as the 'ruling class', the people at the top whose greed exceeds their power, and whose power unfortunately exceeds the great amounts of money they already have. This idea that they cannot afford to give us our small amounts of money is unfortunate propaganda, peddled by the media who are themselves owned by the same 'ruling class'. It is not that these people CANNOT afford to pay it, it is that they WILL NOT afford to pay it, not when they can take a few more sheckles for themselves, establishing themselves ever farther away from the increasingly bleak normality that your everyday Joe and Jane experience. In fact, this change in pensions tends to have its origins in a domino effect, whereby one company changes its pension policy to save money, and every other company then follows suit, citing 'changing industry standards' as the cause, rather than sheer greed.

We need to get away from the idea that there is not enough money to keep us, to pay us, or to stop us from living a comfortable life. There has always been enough money, unfortunately it is held by an increasingly small number of people who want to horde it away like dragons, in their mountain kingdoms. It is because of this greed that the sinew that holds our capitalist democracy together is starting to strain. As it does so, we are attacked every day by more and more propaganda, and are offered distractions to salve our growing discontent. It is very important that we stop believing them, because it is clear that they are liars. We have to ask ourselves, if we cannot even have the barest fundamentals necessary to live a decent life, why should we bother at all? Working until we are eighty years old in exchange for nothing? There's no happy ending if that's what we're being offered, and that's true for society as a whole. The old deal was that you work hard, you have a career that sustains you until you're old enough to retire in peace and prosperity. The new deal is that you work harder, in a life of growing temporariness that doesn't sustain you until you die.

Consider the point of that. Ask yourself why you would do that. Give me one good reason you should. Then wonder that so many people ARE doing just that. Ambling to the grave for the benefit of their masters.

I have heard it stops at director level, so it looks as tho Moya wont loose out at all.

[nickbsmooth]

Does this pension fiasco only affect those employed pre 2008?

[scoobydo79]

The sad fact is if the money ain't there, it ain't there. Is everyone in the country going on strike because the govt are putting up the age of retirement? Most companies are struggling with their pensions. How many of us took out endowment policies 20 yrs ago with promises of £X to come when it matures, only to get much much less when it does? When will people get it that RM can't just go cap in hand to the govt any more, we are a business who must stand on its own. Of course, we must try and get the best possible deal out of it (£750, doesn't really cut it) however facts are facts, pensions across the board are fxxcked. Like it or not, that's life. Striking is only going to damage business and our future jobs, I favour working to rule. Don't know how this can be construed as industrial action if it's not orchestrated. Many of us work to rule every day anyway. It's about time they realised just how long it takes to do the job now and working to time is the only way they will see the true picture. Yeah, it's gutting if you're gonna get £2k less a yr than you thought in retirement, but if you add up your contributions over the yrs you'll also get a picture of how much the company has contributed to it over those yrs, you're still better of in the pension. Doesn't stop it pxxsing you off though.

Money not there eh? They found it for World Class Mail, they found it for Consignia,They found it for peak time adverts by Elton John. The money is there. They just dont want You to have it!!!!

[cloherty1976]

The sad fact is if the money ain't there, it ain't there. Is everyone in the country going on strike because the govt are putting up the age of retirement? Most companies are struggling with their pensions. How many of us took out endowment policies 20 yrs ago with promises of £X to come when it matures, only to get much much less when it does? When will people get it that RM can't just go cap in hand to the govt any more, we are a business who must stand on its own. Of course, we must try and get the best possible deal out of it (£750, doesn't really cut it) however facts are facts, pensions across the board are fxxcked. Like it or not, that's life. Striking is only going to damage business and our future jobs, I favour working to rule. Don't know how this can be construed as industrial action if it's not orchestrated. Many of us work to rule every day anyway. It's about time they realised just how long it takes to do the job now and working to time is the only way they will see the true picture. Yeah, it's gutting if you're gonna get £2k less a yr than you thought in retirement, but if you add up your contributions over the yrs you'll also get a picture of how much the company has contributed to it over those yrs, you're still better of in the pension. Doesn't stop it pxxsing you off though.

Money not there eh? They found it for World Class Mail, they found it for Consignia,They found it for peak time adverts by Elton John. The money is there. They just dont want You to have it!!!!

Surely then we were backed by the government but now a private company not making vast amounts of money and shareholders to pay. Do we just pay all the profit into the pension pot and not pay dividends? Would that be a good answer

[Dorset Plodder]

I'm sure we'll hear a lot more about this Pension offer over the next few months. A few valid points already made. I agree that Royal Mail are initially just trying it on. A bit like selling your car you want £1500 ...you go high ask for £2000, the other guy goes low and offer £1000...... you hopefully end up somewhere around the middle.

The actual figures will obviously have to be hammered out by the CWU, I only hope they've got some people up to the task. It'd be nice if there was an independent negotiator who could assess what RM "could" afford, but I can't see any Company opening their books up to someone from outside.

Whilst agreeing that Royal Mail may well be pleading poverty (a cut of 7% on their contributions seems excessive) I also agree that we all have to take some responsibility for planing for our own retirement. Do you trust Royal Mail for ANYTHING? So why trust them to look after you once you've left the business? I'd suggest perhaps sorting yourself out another Personal Pension(if you're young enough) and put a bit of your take home pay in. You'll still benefit from the usual Tax rebates!