Worried

lala · Post by **lala** » 17 Dec 2016, 17:30

Embarrassing and disgusting that a national company with history of 500 years can treat other humans with such contempt.

Post by **woopesh** » 17 Dec 2016, 17:48

The photoshopping pictures bit sounds bad, but the rest sounds very typical of Royal Mail, at least from my experience and what I have read here. I think he needs to get out for his sake. Outright lying, cohersion and "pressure" tactics are very commonly used. When I was new, I faced everything your husband faced apart from the photoshopping. Its only after gaining experience and talking to loads of posties and union reps about the rules I was confident to fight back. The management will not look after you. They exist to extract value from you, by tooth or claw or nail. The culture in this company is toxic.

Mobey · Post by **Mobey** » 17 Dec 2016, 17:54

http://www.samaritans.org/branches

Free number to phone is 116123.

Post by **woopesh** » 17 Dec 2016, 18:01

ranger1 wrote:
woopesh wrote:The photoshopping pictures bit sounds bad, but the rest sounds very typical of Royal Mail, at least from my experience and what I have read here. I think he needs to get out for his sake. The culture in this company is toxic.
The culture in this company is toxic you say...

Who is responsible for this to happen ?? Moya greene ??

I watched a video on u tube. .. where moya said it was employee on employee who bully... and everyone starting laughing....

Well if you charge 50p to do a job that costs £1 to do properly and then tell all the people doing that job to make it happen regardless of the reality that is what you get. At least thats how I see it. You know we have some of the cheapest postage rates in Europe? I read that in the Courier... it was pitched to make it sound like Royal Mail offer good value for money when the reality speaks of underinvestment.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 17 Dec 2016, 18:07

I never thought I would be shocked by the actions of a Manager again, I thought I had seen it all. It appears it was a misguided belief.

Even if the manager is so unprofessional as to think banter with employees is acceptable, the action of photoshopping someone's photo and displaying it on a board is GROSS MISCONDUCT and a lowly postie would be suspended with dismissal a likely outcome. For a Manager, its Bullying and Harassment by a person in a position of authority and in my personal opinion would warrant instant dismissal.

I leave my final comment to a copy and paste from a CUPW (Canadian Equivalent of CWU) document from 2009.

Moya Greene’s agenda of cost reduction features more managers, more supervisors,
more staffing shortages, more senseless discharges, more arbitration costs, more wcb
challenges, more sick leave disputes, and an increasingly toxic work environment.

tommyrep · Post by **tommyrep** » 17 Dec 2016, 20:00

Bob Gibson.
If you do read this forum, if someone has read it and relayed the story to you, if you are still sitting on a beach with your head in the sand ! You are a national disgrace and an embarrassment to hold such a high position within the CWU and NOT feel repulsed by the treatment being served on an employee working in delivery. This us happening on your watch and is rife throughout the country, why do you not accept these cases are unacceptable ? Why do you not take up the challenge presented and rid your delivery members of such bullying. These scum managers need sacked, your refusal to support down trodden posties is a disgrace. SHAME on you, man up and do a job for once or jack it in and go back to delivery if you think all is well in DOs. There are plenty to pick from as is evident on this forum. Bob, time you grew a pair or ship out, now!

FelicityRae · Post by **FelicityRae** » 17 Dec 2016, 20:17

Firstly thank you all so much for replying. Your kind responses were exactly what I needed to read after losing all faith in the Royal Mail.

All the suggestions have been read and taken on board. The samaritans are a good shout and the local office is incredibly close to where we live, so that's helpful. As have all the other links been. I spotted counselling on the bullying one too, so that may help also.

I'm not sure about contacting Moya, as they said about keeping it informal so it suggests it won't be taken seriously. Having said that I'm glad you all agree that the photo especially is a serious matter and unusual. With them (or rather the area rep the actual rep was massively shocked and disgusted by it) saying it's not then you start to doubt yourself.

He can't or won't take time off because he feels that will make it all worse. And that it will likely result in being sacked as he's in his probationary period.

It saddens me to read this is such an engrained part of RM culture. I agree with someone needing to go in and see it's just as bad as the companies mentioned. I can see why so many posties don't make it to six months.

I think we are going to look for another job for him which is sad because he loves the job and the other members of staff. I do know though that if this continues then we've a very real risk of suicide. I can't lose him because of some idiot on a power trip.

In the mean time do any of you have advice on what he can do to go quicker? He has been told he has to think about how he can improve over the weekend. If he knew that then surely he would do it. He's walking as fast as he can without running, he doesn't take a break, he doesn't stop to read the Mail and so on.

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 17 Dec 2016, 20:34

first of all let me be clear, the workload at the moment is so high that most posties in most offices dont get their work done in duty time. I personally dont get close and if you read through this forum you`ll find the same again and again..So I very much doubt hes doing anytiing "wrong" or hes slow. Its hard to advise on what he could do to go faster, honestly i think this is a dead end of trying to solve the problem. My advice would be to see which ever rep seems to be taking this at all seriously and follow it up again with them, making it very clear how much stress is being brought on by both managers actions and the workload.

FelicityRae · Post by **FelicityRae** » 17 Dec 2016, 20:54

Thank you. I said as much to him but he's feeling such a failure at the minute that it's hard for him to see clearly. He's on a PT contract and doing all the D2D prepping, finishes the other prepping, redirections, marking the packets and bundling, when he gets in and that means he's out late. The d2d's has been an area of contention as he isn't getting paid for the full lot but is expected to do it all. The rep suggested doing them however long it took and then just cutting off at his time which would work if he wasn't in his probationary period.

The rep is off on Monday I think but he's going to speak to him on Tuesday. I've suggested him asking for someone to go out with him, if they're so sure he could improve them they can come and show him where.

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 17 Dec 2016, 21:00

yeah he needs to take his d2d allocation, and i very much doubt theyll go out with him

FelicityRae · Post by **FelicityRae** » 17 Dec 2016, 21:07

Interesting since they were the ones that originally said they were going out with him. More threats then?

He has no problem doing the D2d's if they realise that prepping them all makes him get out later and that makes him get back later.

Post by **bustedflush** » 17 Dec 2016, 21:47

OK Felicity:

Taking your OP at face value, I fully understand the anxiety he feels. First of all I started as a reserve albeit in better office by the sound of it. The temp contract encourages missing meals and being eager to please both the managers and your partner(s) on delivery as you always live with doubt until permanently employed. It serves to propagate the 'finish early at all costs' ethos which includes early starting and missing breaks. Then once you are permanent you've established yourself as a 'runner' and therefore you cannot go quicker, as you've already cut every corner like reading mail walking, breaks, prepping D2D's in your time etc.

Then even worse, the lack of coaching and training is awful. The person you work with hasn't got time to help especially this time of year, so you feel even more pressurized and inadequate. Then put on an unfamilar round whereby you lose time getting lost or not knowing the bundling, and get ranted at for 'going over' or cutting-off. When permanent you can pretty much tell the managers to go hang if they try and pressurize you into working extra or otherwise act unfairly. This is what many old-timers don't appreciate when you are a temp contract reserve - you daren't say boo to a goose or feel uncomfortable getting the rep straight in on things.

If he finishes early each day bar Wednesday (maybe via missing a break or cutting a few corners or maybe he's just fast!) then let me tell you he will be popular amongst the roundholders because most of them will (rightly or wrongly) prefer early finishing and therefore working with like-minded colleagues. I remember when I started, the stress of knowing I had to be at the school at X time and the anxiety of being new to a round and not knowing when I'd finish, that maybe I'd have to stick my neck out and speak to an intolerant manager to finish on time and the resulting criticism and sarcasm. Luckily it seldom happened, but I really stressed when I knew it was going to...

So yes, I have been there and also saw another reserve have a breakdown for the same reasons and go off sick. This is why (I was told at induction day) that 1/9 new posties last 6 months.

OK, to your specifics. His treatment has been UNACCEPTABLE and it brings me to case in Scotland we were told about at induction, an Indian opg was repeatedly mocked and ridiculed (albeit by supposed colleagues too) and nothing was done, yes it ended tragically and resulted in huge compensation being paid by RM and implementation of a supposedly rigid and stringent anti-bullying strategy which has exactly the same limitations as in a school - the shame and embarrassment of complaining or being made to feel a 'grass' prevents its use.

So - what to do? Firstly try and locate a copy of this horrible photoshop and retain it, and/or get him to get witnesses to its usage. I am surprised no colleagues have expressed consternation enough to already offer this if they are aware of it. IF colleagues turn the other way and are aware THEY ARE COMPLICIT! This should not be happening and trust me if I was permanent and was working with him and saw the upset I'd walk in the f***ing office and rip it down myself. It's so wrong.

I am sickened tonight reading this and can only apologize (as an ex-employee) on behalf of all decent postmen/women that this has occurred. I really hope this doesn't impact on your Christmas and ruin it with anxiety and stress.

You MUST report this - it's akin to constructive dismissal so get evidence and again REPORT it to the helpline and name names too. There's no way this a$$wipe should be allowed to mete this cr*p out to anybody else later on. See a doctor and get signed-off if necessary. No, no pay aside from SSP but if you are able to prove harassment you will be refunded later and more. If he's in the Union you also have free good legal advice and solicitors. This is only outline advice as I don't know the full extent and details of your chap's situation, but whichever it needs stopping - permanently as in the person(s) responsible are stopped and not by any drastic actions such as him leaving.... or worse. Stick together and support him, and maybe if appropriate point him in this thread's direction.

Please keep us up to date but as mentioned by others it may be a good idea to ask admin to do something with your username ASAP if you feel it may identify you.

Good Luck Felicity and hope to get some potitive updates soon.

Dorset Plodder · Post by **Dorset Plodder** » 17 Dec 2016, 22:28

Read your post, and agree with a lot of the advice given. Royal Mail management rely a lot on Harassment & Bullying to get THEIR bonuses!

It's also a sad indictment of our work culture that he gets so little support from his colleagues!

It's a grim reality being a Part Timer on Probation. Hope the situation improves soon. Good Luck

FelicityRae · Post by **FelicityRae** » 17 Dec 2016, 22:36

Thank you for such a detailed response. That sounds exactly like what is happening here although he does have a permanent contract (they couldn't recruit anyone from what I can gather, so after months of trying they put up a permanent contract and my husband got it), however there's the six months (or is it a year?) probation that is effectively just the same as being on a temp contract as they can just say it didn't work out.

That's part of his stress too, knowing that he will sometimes have to be some where for our children and that the fallout from that lasts weeks. We've a young family, one of our children has a disability and one is very young so sometimes I need him to be home at the time he is suppose to be. One time he prewarned them the day before so got told to come in x amount of time early, he did, they gave him more work and he ended up having to go over again.

That's incredibly sad but I can see how it got to that situation. It seems like a train in motion and no one can or will step in to help apply the brakes.

I'm not sure we could get a copy, however we do have a photo of it and also he stupidly sent a copy of it to another employee, it was a photo of him holding it up and grinning. We can get that if it would help. It was put on a board next to the key cupboard so there's no way that people didn't see it but not one person has mentioned it to him aside from the twat that did it, oh and another manager saying it had nothing to do with him.

Thank you. That's really kind of you. I'll try to get him to read some of this but understandably he is finding it hard to motivate himself at the moment.

My username is nothing like my actual name and not connected to my husband in any way either. I chose something random that I thought was pretty

thank you for the warning though.

Post by **woopesh** » 17 Dec 2016, 23:46

It takes time to go quicker. 6 months to a year. Its lots of little bits of refining through experience. Its hard to give advice because everyone finds different things that work for them. If he can stick it out for that time, the harassment will drop off considerably, mainly because he will be able to work at a rate acceptable to the managers. At least it was like this for me.

If he has a permanent contract he can work his hours and this can't be used as a reason to dismiss him even during probation. He has every right to work to his time. The managers may make out otherwise but they wont be able to touch him. Dismissal has to be a conduct issue. Taking "excessive" time off for sickness, breaking a mail delivery rule, verbal abuse of customers, stealing etc.