This 'Lapsing' nonsense

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 17 Sep 2016, 16:00

Newbie001 wrote:
fishtank wrote:
Newbie001 wrote:Until they stop job and finish, which still happens in a lot of offices. People are going keep coming in early, not taking breaks and rushing in the hope they finish early. And managers are going to see all the early finishers and keep lapsing duties. Totally agree, we bring it on ourselves.
They stopped it in 2007.
The fact that a national agreement is not adhered to is unfortunately the fault of the office rep through the weekly resource meeting and the national officers who all know the consequences of allowing a practice that undermines jobs.

The carrot is there because management at local level are allowed to put it there, blaming the donkey for eating it is lazy.
Been told hundred times by rep to start on time, take breaks etc. And can count on one hand how many posties actually listen to them. Not sure how much power a rep actually has, so can't comment on if they're doing job properly or not.

The job of the rep at the weekly resource meeting is to make sure all resourcing agreements are adhered to by management, if not a disagreement should be lodged, simply telling members to start on time, take breaks etc while at the same time ignoring agreements is a cop out.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 17 Sep 2016, 16:12

As long as people run round their walks, don't take breaks, stay out instead of cutting off or claiming ot, etc then there will always be lapsing and the more that people cut corners, the more lapsing that DOMs can introduce, DO staff are their own worst enemy. If everyone was to do the job properly then DOMs would be forced to put hours in or even new duties. It's probably also denying PT staff the opportunity to become FT

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 17 Sep 2016, 16:40

As long as members are encouraged to finish early or are pressured into cutting corners just to get finished on time this will continue to happen so do you keep blaming the donkey for eating the carrot or being afraid of the stick or do you try to take both out of the hands of management?

We have the agreements to do it so why isn't it done?

P13 · Post by **P13** » 17 Sep 2016, 17:41

fishtank wrote:
Newbie001 wrote:Until they stop job and finish, which still happens in a lot of offices. People are going keep coming in early, not taking breaks and rushing in the hope they finish early. And managers are going to see all the early finishers and keep lapsing duties. Totally agree, we bring it on ourselves.
They stopped it in 2007.
The fact that a national agreement is not adhered to is unfortunately the fault of the office rep through the weekly resource meeting and the national officers who all know the consequences of allowing a practice that undermines jobs.

The carrot is there because management at local level are allowed to put it there, blaming the donkey for eating it is lazy.

Not according to Dave Ward when I quizzed him on job and finish,his exact words were "if I stop job and finish I would get lynched"

ScousePostie · Post by **ScousePostie** » 17 Sep 2016, 18:03

This week we lapsed on Wednesday only. Doesn't make any sense at all. Lighter days no lapsing, heaviest day of the week... lets lapse.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 17 Sep 2016, 19:17

P13 wrote:Not according to Dave Ward when I quizzed him on job and finish,his exact words were "if I stop job and finish I would get lynched"

Exactly my point.
Self interest beats the interests of the membership as a whole.
Let's not rock the boat in case we don't get re-elected.

That attitude runs right through the union from national officers to local reps and we keep blaming the donkey for eating the carrot.

NewPostieUK · Post by **NewPostieUK** » 17 Sep 2016, 19:31

ScousePostie wrote:This week we lapsed on Wednesday only. Doesn't make any sense at all. Lighter days no lapsing, heaviest day of the week... lets lapse.

I wish they'd do that in my office, the perfect reason not to do it "Sorry, no time, it's the busiest day of the week."

Actually, I've stopped the 'no time' argument, I just say 'sorry, I can't do overtime today', as it should be perfectly clear there isn't time to lapse in the manner it's meant to be (filling up unused working hours), and I take their asking me to lapse as meaning would I like to do some overtime and take out this bundle they are stuck with due to bad management.

Rommagic · Post by **Rommagic** » 18 Sep 2016, 10:46

We are lapsing five days a week.

leelatic · Post by **leelatic** » 18 Sep 2016, 11:31

They are paying overtime out to get extra people in on prep so people get out early enough to do their lapse.Can anybody explain the sense in that? It's happening in most of the offices in our sector and even DOMS I've spoke to agree it is a stupid practice but it is being pushed by higher ups.

seaside · Post by **seaside** » 18 Sep 2016, 14:10

Maybe they are slowly trying to prepare us for the 6 hour delivery

steve1873 · Post by **steve1873** » 18 Sep 2016, 14:15

Creditshampoo wrote:
Postie45 wrote:to the OPs original question. You tell the manager at a reasonably early point that you wont be able to complete on time and want to finish on time. Thats basically it, whatever they come back to you with make sure you dont agree to completing anything you dont think can reasonably be done. Theyll probably tell you to take it all out, so you just come back on time and bring back whatever you havent got delivered and make sure you come back early enough to book stuff back in ie dont just get back to the office at the finish time.
If the managers try some bullying tactics id make the cwu local/ area rep aware. Also make sure you take your breaks, theyre yours not RMs
That's not the cut off procedure. Don't take it all out if you don't think just you can complete it within your time.

Do not bring mail back

The procedure is, do as instructed after bringing it to their attention your wish to only work contracted hours. If they insist on taking it all out, then you inform them that they will be receiving a phoecall later in the day informing them of how much of the delivery will be being brought back.

ALWAYS have this conversation in front of a witness, preferably your union rep.

MAILMAN84 · Post by **MAILMAN84** » 18 Sep 2016, 18:27

We lapse every day. We have 8 off sick now because people are exhausted. We lapse 6 days no matter figures. If the mails heavy they put some to the side. They say on saturday we need to take more as were out early (break goes at the end of the duty on a Saturday?). At the point I'm ready to leave. 10 years service and still part time reserve.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 18 Sep 2016, 18:51

MAILMAN84 wrote:We lapse every day. We have 8 off sick now because people are exhausted. We lapse 6 days no matter figures. If the mails heavy they put some to the side. They say on saturday we need to take more as were out early (break goes at the end of the duty on a Saturday?). At the point I'm ready to leave. 10 years service and still part time reserve.

How many at your DO?

* Don't take their breaks
* Don't either cut-off or claim ot if over running
* Run round their walk
* Come in early before their official start time
* and the rest of the list of reasons

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 19 Sep 2016, 00:56

MAILMAN84 wrote:We lapse every day. We have 8 off sick now because people are exhausted. We lapse 6 days no matter figures. If the mails heavy they put some to the side. They say on saturday we need to take more as were out early (break goes at the end of the duty on a Saturday?). At the point I'm ready to leave. 10 years service and still part time reserve.

no break doesnt go to end of shift on a Saturday, this is just something that has a "silent" agreement between posties and management to get people home a little bit earlier. I think it may actually be illegal as it means we`re working too many hours in a row without a break, i could be wrong about that. Either way, you still are entitled to take a break in the morning before you leave if you wish to. If management are giving extra work because people are coming back early because they havent taken this break then id urge you to start taking it on Saturdays.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 19 Sep 2016, 19:49

Postie45 wrote:
MAILMAN84 wrote:We lapse every day. We have 8 off sick now because people are exhausted. We lapse 6 days no matter figures. If the mails heavy they put some to the side. They say on saturday we need to take more as were out early (break goes at the end of the duty on a Saturday?). At the point I'm ready to leave. 10 years service and still part time reserve.
no break doesnt go to end of shift on a Saturday, this is just something that has a "silent" agreement between posties and management to get people home a little bit earlier. I think it may actually be illegal as it means we`re working too many hours in a row without a break, i could be wrong about that. Either way, you still are entitled to take a break in the morning before you leave if you wish to. If management are giving extra work because people are coming back early because they havent taken this break then id urge you to start taking it on Saturdays.

They should all realise this is not their time but royal mails time take your meal relief use your equipment don't cut corners and start on time finish on time and tell the manager before you go out you may not complete your duties if all of you do it I can guarantee they will back off for now. As too the future the writing is on the wall for job and finish and any arrangement's for early Saturdays and all the other s**t that goes on for it's us and them a war with attrition at it's forefront!