Corbyn

[fishtank]

Meanwhile back in the real world he fails to engage, polls make Labour favourites for their worst ever election result so what's the grand plan?

If the man can only engage with a room full at a time it's going to take a long time to win a majority.

[dvbuk55]

Meanwhile back in the real world he fails to engage, polls make Labour favourites for their worst ever election result so what's the grand plan?

If the man can only engage with a room full at a time it's going to take a long time to win a majority.

Well I'm hoping to reach 100 but I'm not expecting to see a Labour majority before that if Clueless Corbyn holds sway

[baldrick]

Meanwhile back in the real world he fails to engage, polls make Labour favourites for their worst ever election result so what's the grand plan?

If the man can only engage with a room full at a time it's going to take a long time to win a majority.

Owen Smith can't even get a room full. Corbyn has been engaging with thousands of people mainly at outdoor rallies because there weren't halls big enough to accommodate the numbers of people wanting to hear him. His campaign has been aiming particularly at the most deprived areas of the country which are ignored by other politicians.
Polls got the last GE result wrong.
And 12 months and closer to the European Referendum polls were showing only 20-30% were for Brexit.
People can be won over when the arguments are put to them. The grand plan is to build a mass movement to oppose austerity and elect a Government which will look after the majority of the people, not the 1% at the top.

[dvbuk55]

The grand plan is to build a mass movement to oppose austerity and elect a Government which will look after the majority of the people, not the 1% at the top.

Well good luck with that but I'm only banking on a 100 so I obviously won't see it . Is it Corbyns grand plan or just some rehashed socialist twaddle from the last century, something the vast majority of labour supporters just haven't, even having almost 100 years to take on board, won't embrace in the next 100 years. If I had one question for Corbyn it would be "Why didn't he resign and give the party a chance in the next election instead of confining it to a generation in the wilderness?"

[k979aaa]

The very fact of the matter is the candidate against Jeremy Corbyn but I will not vote for "Tony Blair MKII Owen Smith" so polished his own s**t it would shine yet no policy's no principals no credibility at the end of the day your just voting for what is in his own mind not what he has stood for and fought for all his life!

[dvbuk55]

Just seen Corbyn on PMs question time, what a one dimensional person he is. He couldn't hold his own in the gents let alone the house of commons.

[baldrick]

Meanwhile back in the real world Jeremy Corbyn engages with thousands of ordinary people in Nottingham.

Corbyn Nottingham.jpg

Jeremy Corbyn Nottingham.jpg

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.

[Tman]

You keep posting these photo's like they're supposed to prove something.
Reminds me of the story of when Stalin took overall control, and had himself "added" beside Lenin in all the pics taken at rallies etc in the early years, then had to go over it again later and have Trotsky, Beria etc taken out.
Propaganda via pictures, and as everyone knows, the camera never ever lies.....
Having said that, the attendees really don't look at all enthusiastic in the last two pics. Reality dawns, maybe?

[dvbuk55]

Meanwhile back in the real world Jeremy Corbyn engages with thousands of ordinary people in Nottingham.

No, really baldrick, take a look at the crowd in detail. They LOOK like ordinary people who look bored with the same old same old BUT it's middle England he needs to engage and he can't do that simply because he doesn't have the policies to do that. The old left wing rhetoric just doesn't appeal to them and he needs MILLIONS of people supporting him to get him in power. Theresa May made a point yesterday pointing out that the disarray labour is in the Tories won't let them back into power. My wife was watching PMQs yesterday and although not particularly interested in politics does watch it and commented "who are they I don't recognise anybody" and she was talking about the shadow cabinet, though ghost cabinet would be more apt because they are less tangible than a shadow and looked totally bemused.

[dvbuk55]

Corbyn and Owen on Question time tonight at 9 o'clock.

[jetblack]

DVB - serious question. When you were in the military, or in any other part of your life, did you ever come across "leading from the back" ?
Like I say, it's a serious question. Cos I think more than anything else its corbyns style of leadership that winds you up - he isn't what you,it seems, equate with a leader.

Me, personally, I'm not really one for following leaders - and maybe it's this about Corbyn that I quite like. I prefer to make up my own mind. My respect for a leader is in direct proportion to the level at which they allow/facilitate me in making up my own mind. Which, it has to be said, most don't seem to want to. Therefore, why on earth would I wish to follow them/subvert my will and my experience to them ?

Interesting today that trump has been praising Putin - seems like they are both of the school of leadership that might resonate with yourself. Am I right ?
Call a spade a spade - shoot from the hip - take no prisoners etc
Don't get me wrong - under certain circumstances there's a lot to be said for that sort of man - and the Russians seem to love Putin. Trump, likewise, seems to have hit a nerve in the US.

Is this the type of leader you would like, policies aside ?

[baldrick]

You keep posting these photo's like they're supposed to prove something.
Reminds me of the story of when Stalin took overall control, and had himself "added" beside Lenin in all the pics taken at rallies etc in the early years, then had to go over it again later and have Trotsky, Beria etc taken out.
Propaganda via pictures, and as everyone knows, the camera never ever lies.....

Tman I keep posting these pictures and reports of Corbyn rallies because you and dvbuk keep saying that he has no support from the general public. The fact that thousands of ordinary people turn out to hear him indicates otherwise. How many other politicians get that sort of attendance? I can't think of any in recent decades.
If Owen Smith was getting this sort of response I think it would be all over the national media, but they seem to be ignoring the support for Corbyn in this contest. They did report the large turnouts at his meetings during last year's leadership contest. Why aren't they reporting them now?
And if you think the Nottingham Post is like Pravda you need a reality check.

[baldrick]

My wife was watching PMQs yesterday and although not particularly interested in politics does watch it and commented "who are they I don't recognise anybody" and she was talking about the shadow cabinet

dvbuk I doubt that anyone apart from Westminster anoraks would recognise most MPs apart from the party leaders, and perhaps their local MP, and a lot of people who don't take an interest in politics would recognise even those.
I don't think many people would have recognised most of ed Milliband's shadow cabinet either, except maybe Ed Balls, and look what happened to him in the last GE. Most people wouldn't recognise the majority of Government Cabinet Ministers too.
Neither the Tory or Labour front benchers have been in place long enough to become familiar to the general public. It was different with previous Cabinets and Shadow Cabinets who were in place for years.
Once Labour becomes the Government after the next GE, people will get to know who they are.

And yes I know I am a 'Corbynista' but I thought Corbyn came across well in last night's tv debate.

[dvbuk55]

DVB - serious question. When you were in the military, or in any other part of your life, did you ever come across "leading from the back" ?
Like I say, it's a serious question. Cos I think more than anything else its corbyns style of leadership that winds you up - he isn't what you,it seems, equate with a leader.

Me, personally, I'm not really one for following leaders - and maybe it's this about Corbyn that I quite like. I prefer to make up my own mind. My respect for a leader is in direct proportion to the level at which they allow/facilitate me in making up my own mind. Which, it has to be said, most don't seem to want to. Therefore, why on earth would I wish to follow them/subvert my will and my experience to them ?

Interesting today that trump has been praising Putin - seems like they are both of the school of leadership that might resonate with yourself. Am I right ?
Call a spade a spade - shoot from the hip - take no prisoners etc
Don't get me wrong - under certain circumstances there's a lot to be said for that sort of man - and the Russians seem to love Putin. Trump, likewise, seems to have hit a nerve in the US.

Is this the type of leader you would like, policies aside ?

I think you miss the point of leadership jet. Leadership is not fixing the bayonet and charging in front, running in the face of certain failure it is actually assessing a situation and choosing the right path to follow that inspires others to embrace. As for the policies, I am indifferent to them in truth, it is the man I object to. I saw him on tv last night and there he was leaning on the rostrum like he was in a tap room in some pub, not that I believe Smith is a viable option but Corbyn is in denial.

Yes I was in the military and in that vein I'll tell you of a situation in which I personally wasn't involved but a good friend of mine was. I'll be as brief as I can.

There was 2 NCOs out with 8 men in a landrover, one in charge was senior but the other was far more experienced. They came under fire and left the LR 5 on one side and 3 on the other, the "leader" indicated that the second NCO with the 2 men with him should form on him by placing his fingers on top of his head. The second NCO indicated with 2 fingers that wasn't going to happen, not a military but universal gesture. In theory he should have obeyed the hand command to move his men but he assessed the situation and unlike the leader wouldn't put his men in danger and may as a consequence deplete the effectiveness of the unit by losing nearly half of it.

Now the moral of the tale is the person in charge can make a decision that jeopardises the effectiveness of the whole by making the wrong decision and then because they do not have the ability to take the unit with them lose control. A leader leads by example, by respect and by choosing the right options.

[dvbuk55]

dvbuk I doubt that anyone apart from Westminster anoraks would recognise most MPs apart from the party leaders,Once Labour becomes the Government after the next GE, people will get to know who they are.

And yes I know I am a 'Corbynista' but I thought Corbyn came across well in last night's tv debate.

I think you are mistaken, they all speak at the despatch box with relevance to their responsibility and appear on talk shows if they have anything to say and obviously they don't because they can only repeat what their leader says because he appointed them, some with only a year in parliament and that should in itself highlight the predicament the labour party is in. Much like the leader himself who in 30 years in the house has never ever been in a cabinet position shadow or otherwise and it is obvious at PMQs. Who the feck his advisers are I don't know but they should go back to writing comics and leave politics to those in the know.

As for last nights debate I wouldn't choose either one. At some point Labour is going to have to elect a real leader, though who that would be I cannot say at this point in time but if Theresa May waits until 2020 then there may be someone who comes forward from the depleted ranks of Labour MPs who CAN lead the party.

Baldrick don't kid yourself that Corbyn is ever likely to lead a labour Government, he cannot lead the PLP now and they ARE the labour party in waiting not Corbyn.