Stage 3

[TrueBlueTerrier]

At Huddersfield the managers aren't allowed to use their discretion, they have a standing order to issue any stage when the paperwork comes through for it. The DOM won't allow managers to decide. There was one case at our office when he ordered a manager to issue a stage to a woman who hadn't had a sick day in 10, yes 10 YEARS, who was off for 6 month recovering from breast cancer. Guess who he supports in the strike?

and its also why we got 100% out 100% of the strikes as well.

[NWpostie]

even the managers can get it wrong, I was once pulled in for a stage 1 for taking one day off sick, when the paperwork came through, it turned out the date I was allegedly off for was a Sunday, which I don't work, I work mon to sat at that time.
once confronted, the Line Manager said he can't ignore the paperwork and must issue a Stage 1, the Rep went off on one and get the DOM involved, it was all quietly brushed under the carpet, teh whole office knows about it tho.

they can get it wrong, since then I have never cared fro RM opinions, the Sick procedure is robotic and inhumane, they do not take into account of the fact you never been off sick for 5, 10, 15 years, once off sick you're on the list end of, now whenever I go off sick I now go for the max, be hanged for a Sheep as for a Lamb, off for one day may as well do the 2 weeks.

[Homo Harry]

hi k66yla,

I'm an ex postie who was dismissed last December on a S3. I'm sorry to say, that in my experience, you'll probably get shafted

I put up on here, exactly what happened to me, you can find it here:
http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/forum/vi ... highlight=

I don't know if any of that will help, but anything and everything might be of use to you at the moment.

Some advice I would give, if I knew what I knew now.

This is all presuming you want to keep your job, or at least go down fighting.

Get VERY organised, NOW! Get every bit of paperwork ever issued to you. Not just sick notes and Return To Work notes, but anything and everything. Get hold of a copy of the Royal Mail Attendance Procedure. Read it, then re-read it. Look for things that might help you in there, that if you'd had an accident on duty (AOD) then subsequent time off can't be used in a Stage to issue that stage if it MIGHT be linked. (though saying that... it didn't work for me!)

Take every bit of advice you receive from anyone with a huge pinch of salt. Including anything I say too... ALL advice. I got a load of advice, from people who should have known better, who were frankly talking bollox. Trained Reps too!

Consider your S3 interview to be a battle. Don't think going in there with your cap in your hand and saying "i like working for RM" is going to help you... your DOM is probably under instruction from his gaffer to get numbers down and bring in more P/T and flexible staff, who aren't on pension, who are on probabtion and less likely to know their rights and can be got rid of easier... presuming they even fill your position and don't use your dismissal as natural wastage.

Go into it armed to the teeth. Every single day you have had off, from S1 through to the present, should be accounted for. Check the dates, check they haven't included Bank Holidays ( say you took Weds to Sat off, said you'd return, and you did, but they forgot it was a BH and added that to your total days off, this happened with me and I was able to knock 1 day off my total absence record... it made no difference, but it might help you)

Check the days off are correct!!!! It's simple, but check! On many occasions, they had other peoples sick absence on my record. I was able to prove i was in work those times, because I had a diary where i was having a meeting with my manager...to, believe it or not... discuss why they'd wrongly had me up for a S3, because they'd put other peoples sick on my record.

Get someone from as high up your Branch to rep you as you can. And keep them to task.

If you need any more help, feel free to get in touch, but I aint trained, I went through the whole lot, S3, Appeal, and Employment Tribunal.

Last bit of advice, if you get something come up in your S3, that is contentious, then try and get the meeting adjourned for clarification. It will take your manager a few days to maybe clarify, then you reschedule the meeting... basically drag it out... it keeps you away from a minimum wage job for a couple more weeks!

Good luck.

[Homo Harry]

To add to that....

having re-read your initial post, you might have a very strong case, considering the B&H stuff that led to you being on a S2. BUT, I reckon that RM know this:

Of all dismissals for S3, only a tiny fraction will ever get to Employment Tribunal. The CWU is not supporting people who are dismissed under RMAP, as it is an agreed procedure (basically the CWU would be arguing against something they agree with!). RM might risk dismissing you, knowing it'd be very unlikely to ever get to ET, and if it did, you'd be in there without support from the CWU, up against ET specialist solicitors. You might be the tiny percentage that wins.... and they'd bite the bullet on that as being cost effective way of getting rid of long term staff.

[Stormproof]

Thanks for that Harry, I will take all that on board. Its not looking too good going on the Poll results so far There was no way I could've gone into work with the illness that triggered the Stage 3, I would've been dead..........I doubt that would be taken into consideration.

[Post Off]

Homo Harry and k66yla, I don't suppose it will do much good if you could write to our union Gods, such as what''s his face Hayes and Ward, and show them also all our feelings on the matter too?

I can't believe that the only failsafe we have is a union that will only pick and choose which case it wants based on a likelihood of success. Wtf!

I know next to nothing about these matters, but it might be an idea from now on (for everyone) to keep a diary / scrapbook of sorts, even if it means recording the most mundane of things just so it gets done on an everyday basis.

Homo Harry, I read your earlier post there, and I'm pretty sure you was ill-treated -- big time. I'm quite shocked really. Wish there was some way to 'have another go' at 'em, this Employment Tribunal, but with some independent help. If it's possible, how much money would it cost?

[NWpostie]

use any card you can think of, race, gender, Homophobic, ageist, Disability, anything to make them look bad , they want you to go quietly, don't give them the satisfaction if all else fails, there is nothng like a negative publicty to discredit RM, you are just a number to them, the Public hates bullies, you may even win sympathy and be offered a better job than RM ! try to win offically if you can.

to be honest If I was ever sacked under dubious grounds , I would be planning my revenge, dark alleys, baseball bat and ski masks comes to mind, I am that kind of person, if wrongly done to I won't take it lying down, but thats just my personality, I am fair to most people and will make time for old disabled people, I hate injustice, your case is a massive wrong and abuse of authority.

[Homo Harry]

Thanks for that Harry, I will take all that on board. Its not looking too good going on the Poll results so far There was no way I could've gone into work with the illness that triggered the Stage 3, I would've been dead..........I doubt that would be taken into consideration.

Sorry lass!

:(

I never thought they'd fire me. I was the postman's postman.... perfect, i wore a tie and shined my shoes. Because i believed in it all. I LOVED working for Royal Mail.

I'd warn this thought kayla. Be prepared ofor leaving RM... it hurts.... everyone you know. all youfriends carry on doing what you did, but without you. You wake up at your normal time, 0400 hrs, but you have nowt to go to... and the first fewmonths out of the business.. it feels like you've been clubbed on the head. You are stunned they'd get rid of you.

I don't know how to make that better... it doesn't get better. I see posties out and about, and it aint my life anymore... and it's weird... and hurtful.. many on here slag the job off, but we only slag it off because we know how important it is to us... and we dont want to lose it because of fuckwittery by L&C....

You have it taken away.. you're robbed.. I don't think the union or rm realise that.... :(

I'm off to bed now.... because i have to get up and get ready to pack pizzas at a factory at 7am.

[Sandyman]

Been there and got away with it thanks to branch sec. After a long term absence that resulted in knee surgery - wear and tear caused by deliveries of course. Line manager gave me all the paperwork etc to sign after medical reports, EHS involvement, consultants report etc saying I'd be fine after surgery and stage 2 would be deferred.

One hour later, line manager calls me in. He's on the point of tears because the nazi DOM of the time told him (although he couldn't admit it) to reverse the decision and put me on a 3. Union fought it and won.

The point is none of us should have to go through this just to keep a bunch of extremist managers in wankfodder. My office has walked and won unofficially numerous times to win these cases. We've had lads sacked, go to tribunals, win and get their jobs back because the extremist management have gone too far. It happens all over. What happens to the cretins that cause all this disruption? They get promoted!

The management culture in Royal Mail is a cancer that needs to be removed by our force.

[NWpostie]

The management culture in Royal Mail is a cancer that needs to be removed by our force.

hear ! hear ! preferably clubbed to death down a dark alley,

[norbet colon]

use any card you can think of, race, gender, Homophobic, ageist, Disability, anything to make them look bad , they want you to go quietly, don't give them the satisfaction if all else fails, there is nothng like a negative publicty to discredit RM, you are just a number to them, the Public hates bullies, you may even win sympathy and be offered a better job than RM ! try to win offically if you can.

to be honest If I was ever sacked under dubious grounds , I would be planning my revenge, dark alleys, baseball bat and ski masks comes to mind, I am that kind of person, if wrongly done to I won't take it lying down, but thats just my personality, I am fair to most people and will make time for old disabled people, I hate injustice, your case is a massive wrong and abuse of authority.

I think the weak CWU leadership are at best are frightened of RM turning ET's into Test Cases , the usual arrogant trench warfare , noone takes us on & wins .I agree about RM wanting people to go quietly or they hope people have been ground down so much by the system they're not inclined to make any trouble for RM. Also the s**t stays under the carpet .

I also agree that RTU's need plotting , any card , pick holes contradictions , inaccuracies -there is always the chance that RM will botch something . You have to have prosecution on the balance of probabilities , sometimes RM's arrogance can be it's achillies heel so go for the RM jugular BEFORE THE IT otherwise RM will twist everything , use every dirty trick in the book, bully & stonewall , adverse inferences have be drawn from that , if that fails RM will set their lawyers on people . The sort of people that'll try to get Stevie Wonder a driving licence.

I believe RM have a reputation for making things difficult for people with benefits as they don't want anyone telling tales out of class.

I'm sorry but I feel there would be some petty revenge involved for taking out a B&H .However more fool them if their stupidity & smallmindedness backfires .

[Stormproof]

I've got the stage 3 interview tomorrow, wish me luck

[TrueBlueTerrier]

[saru]

Good Luck!!!
Let us know how you get on.

[vigilante]

I was told this morning the paperwork for a Stage 3 has come through for me.

I had a Carpel Tunnel op back in March, had to have 4 weeks off, I did give 3 months notice that I would be off.

5 weeks ago I was taken ill at work, so after 3 hours of my shift I went home, a few days later I got rushed to hospital for an emergency blood transfusion (4 pints and not 1 contained vodka ) and had to stay in overnight, its taken me nearly a month to recover and I returned to work this week.

Whats the likelyhood of me not getting the sack?

BTW I'm on a Stage 2 because I went off sick with stress for 2 weeks due to B & H by a manager(a case that I won)

you shouldn't be on stage two because the B/H case was in your favour. I just think they are being real nasty and vindictive to you as you won your case.
Get a good union man on it--area boy or something.
Sorry to be blunt.
stage three now is a farce!!!! It is stage one, two, then sacked!!!!!