Corbyn

[jetblack]

.. if he wins the leadership election he will most certainly not win a general election ...

Well, you have said that now I don't know how many times. Lets hope it works out for you DVB - cos you are going to be looking really quite a silly fellow around these parts should things actually pan out the way that many of us believe they will.

Me personally ?

[dvbuk55]

Luke 13:28 for you Corbynistas. I'm thinking of buying one of those blow up................boats, before you say anything, I've sure the streets will be awash with the tears from the believers after the general election and I'm pretty sure there won't be a resurrection. Although if you boys have a word with Mattel Inc they may come up with a Jezza doll dressed in sack cloth and ashes. I suppose it's like watching your favourite team play football, already 172-40 behind and thinking there's a chance of a win

[ballsup]

I don't think any labour leader can win a general election outright, whoever is leader will have to join a coalition to gain power away from the conservatives, this is why the labour party needs to be entirely opposite to the conservatives then maybe they can turn the people who see the rich get richer while seeing their own cities, towns and estates crumble under the imposed austerity of the wealthy into labour voters again.

With regards to FT's Blair question, currently there are 66 mp's who voted for war in Iraq still serving in the labour party and 13 who voted against. The Blair influence is still in the PLP and it needs to be got out quickly, If that means they go independent then that would be their decision, we will see how they get on in a general election.

I have just finished reading a book by Owen Jones called The Establishment: And how they get away with it ( worth a read ). In the book Jones talks about a revolving door between business and politics where people from business move into politics and vice versa, this is Owen Smith in a nut shell, he is the sort of politician I don't want to see leading a party who is supposedly for the working class. In the book he also talks about how the mainstream media will turn on anyone who threatens the staus quo and this is what we are currently seeing happen to Corbyn.

[fishtank]

Voting for the Iraq war makes you a Blairite MP?
How simple politics must be for some minds.

[fishtank]

The public don't want " the exact opposite of the Tories".
That's a dead end for socialists. Does nobody do history anymote?

[baldrick]

I don't know why the Corbynistas are so cock-a-hoop, if he wins the leadership election he will most certainly not win a general election and will consequently be consigned to the loser category and resign. Come on Corbys tell me you think he will win the next election, you can't because you know he can't.

Do you get paid a fiver by the Smith campaign every time you use the term 'Corbynista'? If so you must have earned quite a bit. Still he can afford it from the Parliamentary expenses he claims. Are you a 'Smithista'?

Anyway, yes I think Corbyn can and will win the next General Election. He is giving hope to millions of people who have been screwed by years of austerity measures and who are taking an interest in politics again after having given up during 30 years when you couldn't put a fag paper between the policies of the three main parties. That's why New Labour lost voters to the SNP and UKIP and lost the last two General Elections. We had hoped that things could only get better when Blair was elected, we gave him a second, then third term thinking that it would take time for the damage caused by the Thatcher years to be reversed. But it wasn't. New Labour continued her policies.

So now we hope that a new approach with socialist policies will improve the conditions of the majority of the people, not just the rich 1% at the top. It is a possibility at last.

[baldrick]

The public don't want " the exact opposite of the Tories".
That's a dead end for socialists. Does nobody do history anymote?

You don't need to do history ft. Just look at the last two General Elections. The public didn't want a pale pink version of the Tories. A real alternative needs to be offered.

[baldrick]

Do any of you really believe that any of those 172 PLP MPs want to be associated with the toxic Blair brand?

Who is driving that association and why?

There are some dark arts afoot.

A lot of the New Labour MPs are now desperately trying to disassociate themselves from the toxic Blair brand, including Owen Smith who now claims to be a socialist, and just as left wing as Jeremy Corbyn.
There are others behind the scenes, like McTiernan, Campbell, Mandelson and the Welsh 'Taffia' (which Smith is part of) who still cling to the Blairite triangulation mantra, but are quieter about it.
I don't want to sound like I'm wearing a tinfoil hat. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I don't know what goes on in the Machiavellian manoueverings of the right wing of the PLP. But if you want to look for dark arts perhaps you should look at the Kinnocks. Kinnock Junior was reportedly canvassing Labour MPs to form a breakaway party, and approaching rich Labour donors to fund it.
Coincidentally, perhaps, he was a member of the British Council in Moscow which was expelled by the Russians who claimed they were spying for the UK Government, and who believed he is a spook.

[Tman]

Nobody would argue against the proposition that the UK needs a "fairer" (however individuals wish to define that term) society, but don't see that Corbyn is the man to achieve that aim.
His stated aims are either pie-in-the-sky or out-dated socialist theory from decades past, so neither achievable nor desirable.
Most traditional Labour voters' concerns now seem to centre around immigration and it's attendant problems of housing, rents, schools, healthcare, etc, and all the while silly Corbyn offers nothing but platitudes (or even worthy liberal policies involving even higher numbers being admitted), or whitters on about renationalising various industries, as if that's a policy that most people now give two fecks about.
Rabble-rousing speeches to little cliques of the placard-waving converted don't mean much to the people at the bottom of the heap, and they're the very people Corbyn's policies should be aimed at, but he's too dumb or too arrogant to bother with them.

[dvbuk55]

In my 70 years I've seen many governments, Tory mostly but Labour as well and in truth I can't say I've ever noticed my lifestyle change drastically under either. I've seen the left of labour flop miserably under Michael Foot and Neil Kinnock both left wingers to a degree and lost elections and here we are with another in 2016. None of them have been able to persuade the run of the mill labour supporter to follow their path. It sounds great from the platform but in reality at an election the voters return to type. The leader who has been most successful in post war Britain has been none other than that reviled of the left Tony Blair who won 3 successive elections and he wasn't a left winger, that in itself should tell a tale.

[dvbuk55]

So now we hope that a new approach with socialist policies will improve the conditions of the majority of the people, not just the rich 1% at the top. It is a possibility at last.

Well that's a pretty forlorn hope baldrick, and impossibility would be the most likely outcome. As for Smith, I've already stated that I don't feel that he is the answer he's new and light weight. The new leader will emerge after Corbyn has gone one way or another, losing the leadership election or at the next general election at which time I will gloat endlessly for the benefit of the corbynistas (another fiver please Owen).

[baldrick]

In my 70 years I've seen many governments, Tory mostly but Labour as well and in truth I can't say I've ever noticed my lifestyle change drastically under either.

Then why are you bothered about who is leader of the Labour Party, or whether Labour gets elected to Government? Obviously there is a difference, and the difference needs to be enough to persuade the public to vote for it.
You and I are fortunate to have lived most of our lives with trade union strength, a decent welfare state, education system and health service. All of these have been worsened over the last 30 years with the neo-liberal monetarist policies pursued by both the Conservatives and New Labour.
I can't say my life style has changed a lot either, except that things were getting worse and worse at RM, which is why I took VR. Previously I had thought I would work until 65 if not longer.
But I do feel for the people who are suffering under worsening working conditions and the austerity cuts which is why I want to see a Government which will change the direction in which society is going.

Anyway I received my email ballot from the Labour Party this morning and I have voted for Jeremy Corbyn.

[dvbuk55]

I want to see a Government which will change the direction in which society is going.

I too want to see a government which will change things BUT reverting to ancient texts of socialism isn't the way. There is never going to be universal acceptance of Corbyns socialism. First of all you need to have an electable labour leader who has the support of the PLP and then once elected you begin the change to reform. HOWEVER you cannot print money to pay for reform, it has to be self financing otherwise you fall into the trap of higher and higher taxation of one form or another and cutting back on social services and the next thing you know you're back in opposition and the roundabout begins again.

[Tman]

Jezza busted-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37167700" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More Corbyn BS.

[dvbuk55]

Jezza busted-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37167700" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More Corbyn BS.

Who would have thought Mr Corbyn was partial to pork pies. Just wonder how many pork pies have been involved in his campaign.