Corbyn

DB1100 · Post by **DB1100** » 02 Aug 2016, 19:14

Not for me,I've opted out of the political fund.He's a traitor IMHO.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 02 Aug 2016, 19:54

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 02 Aug 2016, 21:14

You're not doing your cause much good jetblack.
Jesus Christ=Corbyn...really?
lol as the kids would say if they knew who either of them were.

Bearded leader of a cult based on myths and lies...and then there's Jesus Christ.

Post by **dvbuk55** » 03 Aug 2016, 13:42

Corbyn is a joke and more fool the CWU for supporting him. What on earth can Ward be thinking of supporting an obvious loser? He'll renationalise RM?

Now how is he going to accomplish that and all the other promises of "equality" when he will never be in a position to make any changes to society? Making change means being elected to government and only an idiot would believe he has any chance of being elected. At the moment he is boosting his ego by sneaking round the country attending meetings of his supporters rather than face the general public where he will undoubtedly appear as the leftist loony he is.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 03 Aug 2016, 18:47

So let me get this straight.

You lot really do believe in renationalisation of our Royal Mail. You really do believe, as trade union members, in the repeal of the 1999 Employment Relations Act that restricted union effectiveness, power and ability to collectively bargain. You really do believe in £10 an hour as a minimum decent wage.

But you can't vote for it - cos nobody else will ?

I'm confused

You are either seers and visionaries or...well, are you on drugs ?

Post by **dvbuk55** » 03 Aug 2016, 22:03

Of course I believe jet, I can see it all now the day after Corbyn is elected as PM he is riding down Whitehall on a unicorn

The only people on drugs are those who believe that the idiot has any chance of carrying labour supporters through an election. I've said before I hope Theresa calls an election in the near future, the losses inflicted on the labour party will be severe and Corbyn and his sidekick will be forced to resign and good riddance. Labour can begin to rebuild an electable opposition. As a matter of interest I do not believe that RM will be returned to the public domain or that the minimum wage will be £10 any time in the near future as for returning power to the unions

you are living in cloud cuckoo land. The union leaders of today are more political than your average MP and will most certainly in the main not revert to the old ways of calling a strike because nobody fed the cat.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 03 Aug 2016, 22:12

dvbuk55 wrote: As a matter of interest I do not believe that RM will be returned to the public domain or that the minimum wage will be £10 any time in the near future as for returning power to the unions

No - come on DVB - lets get back to basics here. The question - which you don't seem to want to answer - is, do you believe in those objectives or not ? Yes or no.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 04 Aug 2016, 15:39

"Corbyn’s 10 pledges

Full employment and an economy that works for all: based around a £500bn public investment via the planned national investment bank.
A secure homes guarantee: building 1m new homes in five years, at least half of them council homes. Also rent controls and secure tenancies.
Security at work: includes stronger employment rights, an end to zero hours contracts and mandatory collective bargaining for companies with 250 or more employees.
Secure our NHS and social care: end health service privatisation and bring services into a “secure, publicly-provided NHS”.
A national education service: includes universal public childcare, the “progressive restoration” of free education, and quality apprenticeships.
Action to secure our environment: includes keeping to Paris climate agreement, and moving to a “low-carbon economy” and green industries, in part via national investment bank.
Put the public back into our economy and services: includes renationalising railways and bringing private bus, leisure and sports facilities back into local government control.
Cut income and wealth inequality: make a progressive tax system so highest earners are “fairly taxed”, shrink the gap between the highest and lowest paid.
Action to secure an equal society: includes action to combat violence against women, as well as discrimination based on race, sexuality or disability, and defend the Human Rights Act.
Peace and justice at the heart of foreign policy: aims to put conflict resolution and human rights “at the heart of foreign policy”.

There maybe one or two of these that the doubters would question - but surely, taken as a whole, these are absolutely commendable social and political objectives.

Please, any future replies, try to refrain from the term "unelectable" - its a red herring and is stifling any kind of a constructive debate on the real issues.

Post by **dvbuk55** » 04 Aug 2016, 15:51

jetblack wrote:
dvbuk55 wrote: As a matter of interest I do not believe that RM will be returned to the public domain or that the minimum wage will be £10 any time in the near future as for returning power to the unions
No - come on DVB - lets get back to basics here. The question - which you don't seem to want to answer - is, do you believe in those objectives or not ? Yes or no.

The answer is no because as a realist I understand the difference between a loony left wish list and the actual reality of achieving it. You haven't answered my question as to how he will achieve these manifesto objectives UNLESS the labour party is elected to power. Do you really think that he has sufficient support in the labour movement to get elected to lead the country from number 10?

Speaking of a loony left wish list I've just read your latest post setting it out in stark reality, or should I say stark raving lunacy which would be closer to the mark. Most politicians promise the earth knowing full well they are never going to have to realise, fund or organise it. I just hope those who are voting in the coming leadership election realise Corbyn is more than a sandwich short of a picnic and vote accordingly. You still believe that if he wins there will not be a breakaway party by the PLP who do not support him.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 04 Aug 2016, 16:10

jetblack"]"Corbyn’s 10 pledges

Peace and justice at the heart of foreign policy: aims to put conflict resolution and human rights “at the heart of foreign policy”.

For this hippy nonsense alone Corbyn deserves everything and more that's thrown at him.
He's got some neck even to say it out loud.
I'll bet he's even got the Che T-shirt, the CND badges and the "End the Viet-Nam war" placards in his bedroom. Useless, pointless knob, and letting the Tories get away with whatever they want, which is the biggest tragedy of it all.

Post by **dvbuk55** » 04 Aug 2016, 17:36

We already have a resolution to conflict, it's called lock and load and get those drones in the air

Where has this man been for the last 50 years? He's almost the same age as I am and I barely remember a time when we have not been in conflict somewhere in the world. Korea, Suez, Borneo, Aden, Ireland, Falklands, Afghanistan, Iraq (twice) and more that I have probably missed out. Is it something to be proud of, not really but it has been necessary and our armed forces have been brilliant and need to be supported at all times.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 04 Aug 2016, 18:02

dvbuk55 wrote:... it has been necessary

Who decides wether its necessary or not ? Necessary for who ?

Personally, I'm still owing.

dvbuk55 wrote:
The answer is no ... as a realist ...

Thanks for your honesty. I kind of guessed you weren't a socialist - thus your loathing of Jeremy Corbyn.
What is it about a privately owned Royal Mail that you think is beneficial - not to the shareholders btw, but to the likes of myself, the humble employee postman ?
Whats "loony left" about the £10 per hour minimum wage and an end to zero hours contracts ?
No-one called it "loony right" when they privatised Royal Mail did they - why not ?

"..as a realist.."
Your reality must be very different to mine DVB.

Socialism works DVB - have a bit of belief - you are sounding a bit jaded. Life is good mate. Things can be better than they are today - we can make it so.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 04 Aug 2016, 18:07

Why is unelectable a red herring?
Because you say so?
It's a valid question,
Government policies change lives.
Opposition policies don't.

Gordon Brown was unelectable.
That wasn't a red herring, it was an opinion stated before the 2010 election later proven to be a fact.
I'm stating my opinion that Corbyn is even less electable than Brown, we're now going to waste the next four years waiting for the inevitable. What will happen to Labour during those years will make all real Labour supporters weep.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 04 Aug 2016, 18:15

="jetblack
Socialism works DVB - have a bit of belief - you are sounding a bit jaded. Life is good mate. Things can be better than they are today - we can make it so.

Socialism is another of those concepts which is great in theory but never works in reality, so an example of it "working" would be interesting. Has there ever been one? A real one that is, not a label hung on a labour government by it's Tory critics, or some faltering French or Italian minority government?

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 04 Aug 2016, 18:44

fishtank wrote:Why is unelectable a red herring?
Because you say so?

Not because I say so, no. Its a red herring because it puts the socialist in a double bind. Its saying - we damn you if you do, and we damn you if you don't. Its saying , if you do you are unelectable and so irrelevant - and its also saying (or implying) that if you don't, then you've lost anyway cos you have had to compromise so much to middle England that you can no longer offer a viable alternative to the people that formed the bedrock of your traditional support.
You shouldn't be sitting there like a guru proclaiming that socialism is unelectable - who are you speaking for ? - you should instead be asking yourself who are the opinion formers in this country. And when you've answered that question you should be asking yourself, do the interests of the opinion formers coincide with my interests.
I can save you a little bit of bother here - your interests most certainly do not coincide.

This is so self evident today that it is a tautology. It almost goes without saying. People know it to be true.

Its a red herring because its a cheap and transparent attempt at giving the people of this country no choice at all - all the while silencing the real issues (on the grounds that any real solutions to the real issues thus discussed would never find electoral popularity).

Its bullshit.

People have had enough of it - as have the vast majority of the half million people of this country now members of the Labour Party.

Lets talk about the issues hey ? At least DVB has had the honesty to let us know that he doesn't believe in an equitable distribution of wealth, power and opportunity. Or at least he's showed us that if he does believe in it, he has absolutely no idea about how to go about getting it.

What about you ?