CWU support of Jeremy Corbyn

[dvbuk55]

If anyone can point out one saving grace that Corbyn has I would be most interested to hear it. As for who can provide a solution, well Corbyn had that opportunity and refused to see the light. Angela Eagle isn't what I would term a leader and I think she was waiting for someone else to take the challenge on and Owen Smith has now come to the table, however he is certainly an unknown and has only been an MP since 2010.

[baldrick]

I don't need to consult anyone. People who voted for Leave were reported in the media as saying that they had been misled by claims by the Leave campaign. That they thought the NHS would be getting £350m a week, and that immigration from the EU would end, both claims were abandoned by the Leave campaign the day after the referendum.

And there you have it..."reported in the media".
Therefore it must be true, and therefore all the so-called Brexiteers have been had.
World War Three next, isn't it?

You asked who I had consulted. I haven't consulted anyone. I don't know anyone who voted Leave. I can only get some insight from media reports, like most people. I don't think that everything in the media is true, but there isn't anything to suggest that they make everything up either. I quoted a poll which suggests some brexiters are regretting their vote. I know polls aren't 100% correct too. The reports and poll are just indicators. Obviously you don't want to believe them, so choose to sneer instead.

I think it was Cameron who claimed that European co-operation had avoided another world war. I didn't take anything he said seriously, and that was just hyperbole.

Still I hope the Leave campaign were truthful, and we will be getting £350m a week for the NHS, and dvbuk55 won't have Romanians living under his local underpass and cr@pping in the woods. There aren't any Romanians living under the underpass near me, so perhaps it's already working. Or perhaps it's because we don't have any woods here.

[baldrick]

If anyone can point out one saving grace that Corbyn has I would be most interested to hear it.

Corbyn has been consistently principled in his beliefs. He is opposed to austerity, cuts, and wars, unlike his opponents. He is a good and articulate speaker if you actually listen to him. He might not look slick and smarmy, like Blair. But look what happened with Blair. I prefer substance to style.
The reason that people are claiming that Corbyn isn't a 'Leader' is because the Tory dominated press keeps repeating that, and if you repeat something often enough people are going to think it is the actual truth.
Why do you think that people like Murdoch like to own and control the media? It's not just about making profit, but also about manipulating public opinion.

[dvbuk55]

If anyone can point out one saving grace that Corbyn has I would be most interested to hear it.

Corbyn has been consistently principled in his beliefs. He is opposed to austerity, cuts, and wars, unlike his opponents. He is a good and articulate speaker if you actually listen to him. He might not look slick and smarmy, like Blair. But look what happened with Blair. I prefer substance to style.
The reason that people are claiming that Corbyn isn't a 'Leader' is because the Tory dominated press keeps repeating that, and if you repeat something often enough people are going to think it is the actual truth.
Why do you think that people like Murdoch like to own and control the media? It's not just about making profit, but also about manipulating public opinion.

Corbyn has an arrogant smirk about him that says "I'm always right". Principles are fine as an individual baldrick but he is supposed to be the leader of the labour party in opposition. There is no substance to his principles, world affairs dictate the actions of the government and principles don't play a large part in that. When his new front bench asked for a meeting with him, he said he wasn't available, even new members resigned within days apart from the 65 members of his cabinet. It isn't just the media that say he isn't a leader the whole of his cabinet and 172 members of the PLP say the same, if he cannot lead an opposition of his own members he can't be a leader. He may well lead the 200,000 cloth cap brigade with his "principles" but he doesn't lead the PLP nor the 9,000,000 labour supporters. I believe that Corbyn is so principled he would destroy the labour party and there will be a gnashing and wailing if his arrogance prevails.

[Tman]

You said-
I'll leave the histrionics to you and Tman, and the disappointed Brexiters when they discover they have been conned.

and then said-

I quoted a poll which suggests some brexiters are regretting their vote. I know polls aren't 100% correct too. The reports and poll are just indicators. Obviously you don't want to believe them, so choose to sneer instead.



So you're presenting the top statement as fact when it's merely daft media hyperbole (disappointingly, mainly from the BBC) which has been thrown around like confetti since the vote.
Why would anyone (but a disappointed media) organise a poll to ask voters if they would vote differently a week after a referendum when nothing has materially changed for anyone, but then again why would anyone believe the sky will fall in based on such a nonsense poll?
How does it even follow?

[dvbuk55]

Oddly enough in the media today Japan, India, China, Australia and Canada have already expressed a desire to open trade agreements with the UK probably because they didn't want to jump through hoops negotiating with the EU. Of course it was in the media so the remainers won't believe it.

[baldrick]

Oddly enough in the media today Japan, India, China, Australia and Canada have already expressed a desire to open trade agreements with the UK probably because they didn't want to jump through hoops negotiating with the EU. Of course it was in the media so the remainers won't believe it.

Well I believe it. I hope we do get good trade agreements with non-EU countries. Getting better, or even as good, trade agreements with countries still in the EU might be a different matter.
And we will have to find some trade negotiators first, before we can open make any trade agreements.

[baldrick]

You said-
I'll leave the histrionics to you and Tman, and the disappointed Brexiters when they discover they have been conned.

and then said-

I quoted a poll which suggests some brexiters are regretting their vote. I know polls aren't 100% correct too. The reports and poll are just indicators. Obviously you don't want to believe them, so choose to sneer instead.



So you're presenting the top statement as fact when it's merely daft media hyperbole (disappointingly, mainly from the BBC) which has been thrown around like confetti since the vote.
Why would anyone (but a disappointed media) organise a poll to ask voters if they would vote differently a week after a referendum when nothing has materially changed for anyone, but then again why would anyone believe the sky will fall in based on such a nonsense poll?
How does it even follow?

I'm not presenting anything as fact. I am expressing my opinion, as are you. But you frequently make claims without any evidence to support, eg Government Departments will have made plans for Brexit, when the Government has said there are no plans in place, and are now desperately looking for trade negotiators.
But if anyone disagrees with you, you demand proof, and if something is quoted you dismiss it as media hype.
Anyway I'm happy for the Brexiters. I voted Remain, but I'm not 100% happy about the EU either. But on balance I think we are better in than out, and we won't be able to change anything from outside.
I hope I'm wrong and that everything will work out ok, but we will see in the coming months.

[Tman]

But if anyone disagrees with you, you demand proof, and if something is quoted you dismiss it as media hype.

You're hard work. You stated the Brexiters had been conned, and your reasoning for that was some poll taken a week after the referendum some said they'd wished they'd voted to Remain.
Nothing about proof or media hype in that, other than you've clearly swallowed some.

[dvbuk55]

Oddly enough in the media today Japan, India, China, Australia and Canada have already expressed a desire to open trade agreements with the UK probably because they didn't want to jump through hoops negotiating with the EU. Of course it was in the media so the remainers won't believe it.

Well I believe it. I hope we do get good trade agreements with non-EU countries. Getting better, or even as good, trade agreements with countries still in the EU might be a different matter.
And we will have to find some trade negotiators first, before we can open make any trade agreements.

The trade negotiators have tentatively been appointed baldrick and have already opened discourse with other countries. Lets just for a moment say that the EU play hard ball over trade agreements and we say OK we'll get it from somewhere else! After all we can trade with other countries without opening our borders to their citizens. I think it's true to say that the EU export more to us than we export to them so it is in their interests to keep us sweet or suffer the consequences of losing jobs and in a democracy where the people decide the government of the day will have to curb their angst.

[fishtank]

I think you're being very optimistic dvb, as a whole the EU may export more than it imports ( the figures are very vague) but that varies from one member state to another and the EU certainly doesn't speak with one voice, any deal has to be approved by a "qualified" majority of member states and even if it gets through that quagmire it can still be vetoed by the European parliament.

A quick deal will inevitably be a poor deal for the UK, a good deal could take 5 years plus depending on how awkward some states decide to be.

[dvbuk55]

I think you're being very optimistic dvb, as a whole the EU may export more than it imports ( the figures are very vague) but that varies from one member state to another and the EU certainly doesn't speak with one voice, any deal has to be approved by a "qualified" majority of member states and even if it gets through that quagmire it can still be vetoed by the European parliament.

A quick deal will inevitably be a poor deal for the UK, a good deal could take 5 years plus depending on how awkward some states decide to be.

Ever the optimist ft I don't believe that it will be that difficult once the wheels have been set in motion.

[baldrick]

You're hard work.

but I'm worth it!

[Tman]

A quick deal will inevitably be a poor deal for the UK, a good deal could take 5 years plus depending on how awkward some states decide to be.

Ever the optimist ft I don't believe that it will be that difficult once the wheels have been set in motion.

No reason why it should be really. Even if that corrupt little Luxemburger Juncker wanted to stamp his fat little feet, it doesn't mean the various member states are going to be prevented from trading. Would anyone really believe the much-quoted German car industry won't sell to the UK market until all the various little countries of the EU agree on a one-size-fits-all deal?
Another nail in Corbyn's coffin last night....to put your own beliefs above official Labour party policy on Trident renewal...

[dvbuk55]

Another nail in Corbyn's coffin last night....to put your own beliefs above official Labour party policy on Trident renewal...

That man is an offence to common sense. He has set his stall out on clause iv which was cancelled by the realists within the party who realised that it was an almost Victorian utopian dream and had no place in the modern world. I could see Corbyn wandering the streets of London in the 1890s wearing a deerstalker and muttering to himself.