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Royal Mail in EU referendum

Postal workers discussion forum. Discuss the day to day life in a Blue Shirt.
NWpostie
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Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by NWpostie »

I'm voting to leave.

When we joined in 1973 we were told it was purely a trading block we are joining, the same lie was peddled in 1975 referendum, our political elite know that according to the Treaty of Rome and later the Lisbon treaty it was would be a stepping stone to a super state, we have no control and we have to allow free movement to all EU citizens without knowing their backgrounds or qualifications, a few murders, violent assaults and rapes have happened because of that, the EU wants to control our economy and syphon off our money for the corrupt common agricultural policy, which benefits the French and Greek farmers more with no incentive to improve efficiency, we surrendered some of our rebate in exchange for a reform of the CAP, unsurprisingly that never happened.


Out of the EU free movement, we can control who comes in, we can do background checks and I would go further I would like to see an electronic travel authorisation linked to a passport number and background check for no fly list and criminal records before they board a plane, boat or tunnel. we can have a quota system that suits our needs of skilled and unskilled people for seasonal farming work or advanced industry needs. they get money, we get vetted workers on a time limited entry visas and they go home at the end of it otherwise they won't be allowed to come back the next year. this cuts both ways for British citizens by European countries which is fair enough.

It is clear that services and facilities haven't kept up with the numbers coming in housing, GP surgeries, schools, infrastructures each year there is a increase of 300,000 net migration after taking into account of those leaving and staying, thats about 120,000 new houses each year required, 180,000 new school places, on top of that you have waiting list for GPs, as a newcomer they are entitled to a council house if available leapfrogging somebody who is born here and probably living with parents waiting to get a house but is deemed lower priority. that would fuel resentment, lack of integration would also fuel division and suspicions. we must be able to tailor immigration policies according to our resources yet the EU expects us to absorb everybody.

There is a clear democratic deficit in the workings of the EU that is incompatible with the UK model of government, many of the EU officials are appointed not elected, there is a drive to a closer integration of countries and more control.
They forced the Irish to have two referendums on the Lisbon treaty as they didn't like the first result, if the EU had their way they wouldn't let the UK have a referendum, we have one opportunity to change this, we will never get another one and this goes beyond Cameron, Corbyn or any other future political figures, this is about future generations, if we vote to stay, there will be no incentive for the EU to reform and we will only be getting more of the same and consensus voting have been removed replaced by majority voting and 1 voice against 27 countries is not good odds, we would just be a lone voice and the prospect of Turkey joining leave me cold, we would be exposed to a an influx of migrants from Turkey and beyond its very porous borders while Turkey is slowly becoming an Islamic state under Erdogan betraying M.K.Ataturk's legacy of secularity which guaranteed equality for women and men.

If we vote to leave, the seismic shock can do two things, it could force the EU to reform and if its serious, then during the two years of negotiation that we get the results we wanted, we can change our mind and vote in another referendum.
IF there is no reform then we will have done the right thing to leave preserving our economy, political independence, courts and legal system, establishing trading on our own terms that suits our particular circumstances and restablishing preferential trading arrangement with the Commonwealth and the world where it works for us, we did the right thing staying out of the Euro and the Shengen zone.

One other region have left the EU in spite of dire warnings of doom, gloom etc is Greenland and they have done quite well since because their particular circumstances is not computable with the EU.

In short, we will be out of the CAP, Euro, restrictive trading arrangement, legal interference, uncontrolled unrestricted migration and who we allow in, no Turkey it would be EU's problem.


So I'm exercising my democratic choice to Vote Leave :thumbup
Six of Nine loves Seven of Nine, together in Electric Dreams.
dvbuk55
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Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by dvbuk55 »

NWpostie wrote:I'm voting to leave.

So I'm exercising my democratic choice to Vote Leave :thumbup
Great post NWpostie, absolutely spot on - I ask, can we do any worse by leaving the EU and the answer is yes, by remaining.
Tman
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Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by Tman »

Clearly things would get bumpy for a time if we left, but long-term I would hazard a guess that they would gradually improve.
If we stay, things probably wouldn't change too dramatically in the short-term, but the never-ending never-stemmable tide of new arrivals can only lead to social and economic problems, which can only get worse over time.
Then again, if we vote to stay, how long before mr Merckel says that we now have to take our share of the swarms coming up from Africa and from the Middle/Far East?
Chewster
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Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by Chewster »

Tman wrote:Clearly things would get bumpy for a time if we left, but long-term I would hazard a guess that they would gradually improve.
If we stay, things probably wouldn't change too dramatically in the short-term, but the never-ending never-stemmable tide of new arrivals can only lead to social and economic problems, which can only get worse over time.
Then again, if we vote to stay, how long before mr Merckel says that we now have to take our share of the swarms coming up from Africa and from the Middle/Far East?
I can see us being pressured into taking in refugees whether we're in or out, it's an international crisis, not an EU crisis, and our government just loves spending money on international aid (not that that's a terribly bad thing).

And anyway, aren't we already taking in loads of the refugees at the moment?
motherhubbard
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Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by motherhubbard »

Chewster wrote: I can see us being pressured into taking in refugees whether we're in or out,
We have always taken in refugees from the Huguenots, the Jews, the Vietnamese, Ugandan Asians ....the list could go on and on.

On the eve of World War One, as German forces demanded safe passage through Belgium on their way to attack France, the Belgian king refused to stand aside. What came next was unimaginable. Cities were burnt, civilians were murdered. 'The rape of Belgium', as it became known, invoked the sympathy of the world.
Terrified Belgians fled in their hundreds of thousands. But where would they go?
In its long history as a safe haven for refugees, Britain had given a home to French Protestant Huguenots in the 17th century and Russian Jews in the 19th century. Now, it would open its doors to its largest single influx - a quarter of a million Belgians escaping the German invasion. Life for them and their British hosts would be radically changed.
Never let the hand you hold, hold you down.
Tman
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Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by Tman »

Indeed we have always taken in refugees, but the difference here is that-
1) the vast majority of these aren't refugees abut migrants.
2) the numbers of Huguenots, Ugandan Asians, Jews etc were relatively small and limited, unlike the current situation where no-one knows how many want to come and the flow shows no signs of diminishing.
Your post is a well-worn cliché, only topped by the other load of nonsense that "the UK is a land of immigrants anyway", which is another one trotted out by those with a poor knowledge of history.
cpsteve
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Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by cpsteve »

I am voting out. The politicians cant wait to jump on the EU gravy train they don't give a hoot about us, if they had not been caught out on their expenses cons they would still be doing it, the EU is one big expense con. At first I am sure it will be tough but I want the government I vote for making the laws and if we do not like what they do we can vote them out.
dvbuk55
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Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by dvbuk55 »

motherhubbard wrote:
Chewster wrote: Now, it would open its doors to its largest single influx - a quarter of a million Belgians escaping the German invasion. Life for them and their British hosts would be radically changed.
Does it say how many remained in this country after 1918? The current crop of migrants stick like the proverbial to a blanket. One thing that amazed me in todays news was we had absolutely no idea how many small boats are entering our waters either day or night with whoever on board once again dropping off migrants of indeterminate origin, indeterminate allegiance and indeterminate numbers. Here we are sending the Royal Navy to police the Mediterranean when our own shores are open to attack :roll:

The Australians have a more severe approach, they will not allow boats of migrants to land, they are shepherded to Tuvalu on pain of being fired upon if they do not change course when ordered. I'm not sure if they would sink them but who knows?
motherhubbard
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Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by motherhubbard »

Tman wrote: which is another one trotted out by those with a poor knowledge of history.
Come on then Bamber Gascoigne.
Please enlighten us with your greater knowledge of history.
Never let the hand you hold, hold you down.
fishtank
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Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by fishtank »

Economic migration is something all the main parties support so I'm not sure what people are expecting to happen after we leave the EU, have any of the main parties said they will stop it happening?
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
cpsteve
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Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by cpsteve »

fishtank wrote:Economic migration is something all the main parties support so I'm not sure what people are expecting to happen after we leave the EU, have any of the main parties said they will stop it happening?
I would expect us to make the rules about what absent child benefits any people who come here are entitled to as well as a more Australian approach to who settles here. DC tried to get the rules changed he failed. We can vote out and then he can make the chances he wanted.
fishtank
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Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by fishtank »

cpsteve wrote:
fishtank wrote:Economic migration is something all the main parties support so I'm not sure what people are expecting to happen after we leave the EU, have any of the main parties said they will stop it happening?
I would expect us to make the rules about what absent child benefits any people who come here are entitled to as well as a more Australian approach to who settles here. DC tried to get the rules changed he failed. We can vote out and then he can make the chances he wanted.
You do realise that we did make the rules to pay child benefit to absent children, it isn't an EU thing, only four other countries in the EU do it.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
Tman
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Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by Tman »

It is an "EU thing" though as you say, only four other countries allow it to happen, therefore it shouldn't take too much to put a plan in place to stop the £55,000,000 per annum that it costs the UK tax payer.
If it's considered to be fair and acceptable that the other 34 countries don't do it, then why should we?
dvbuk55
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Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by dvbuk55 »

fishtank wrote:
cpsteve wrote:
fishtank wrote:Economic migration is something all the main parties support so I'm not sure what people are expecting to happen after we leave the EU, have any of the main parties said they will stop it happening?
I would expect us to make the rules about what absent child benefits any people who come here are entitled to as well as a more Australian approach to who settles here. DC tried to get the rules changed he failed. We can vote out and then he can make the chances he wanted.
You do realise that we did make the rules to pay child benefit to absent children, it isn't an EU thing, only four other countries in the EU do it.
Odd that because when DC tried to negotiate a limit to the payments it was rejected. If we came out of the EU we could stop those payments altogether which may persuade these people to go back to where they came from and dissuade those queueing up to come here to go somewhere else.
fishtank
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Royal Mail in EU referendum

Post by fishtank »

Tman wrote:It is an "EU thing" though as you say, only four other countries allow it to happen, therefore it shouldn't take too much to put a plan in place to stop the £55,000,000 per annum that it costs the UK tax payer.
If it's considered to be fair and acceptable that the other 34 countries don't do it, then why should we?
It was our decision to do it, the EU didn't ask us to or force us to, if we wanted to stop paying it we could and there's nothing the EU would do to stop us so if wer're not "putting a plan in place to stop it " now what exactly will change after leaving the EU? Saying it's an "EU thing" doesn't make it an "EU thing".
good times, bad times you know I've had my share