Royal Mail in EU referendum

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 26 May 2016, 21:48

"And you believe everything your told...."
so if facts dont support your bias you can just throw them out as not being true ? im getting a pretty good idea of the kind of person im talking to here...

"The factory workers, the care workers, the nursery nurses, the office workers , there wages have not raised as the same level of inflation"

well you can see right here manufacturing has increased at the same rate, would this not count as "factory" work to you ?

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united- ... ufacturing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have no data for the other jobs you mentioned so please provide it seeing as you seem to ?

"N postie I ask you to tell me about the other points in the post, about opas dying due to heating bills, food banks, Muslim paedophile rings, veterans homeless, "

These things have always happened... can you show facts about a dramatic increase in these ? id like to see it

"I haven't assumed anything, you just sound like a typical no all, you called me out, you have provided no facts apart from lentils n rice, I don't eat lentils....thx :cuppa"

i just provided facts about the economy which you chose to dispute .... because "reasons"
and i havent said anything about lentils so must have been someone else.

If you really could back up all your positions, i think i could agree with a lot of what you say, but it just seems like one long rant

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 26 May 2016, 22:02

Wallaceshroom wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/inf ... pt-5156935

If we are throwing out links, n believing everything we read, here's one for you,

Postie are you Jean Claude junker in disguise, :chuckle :chuckle :chuckle

whats this supposed to tell me other than nurses wages havent increased (which is somehow EUs fault?)
It even says in the article that some of the problems were from the global recession (again not from EU)
It doesnt even specify how much "worse off" people are supposedly are, the figures i gave you before show wages are close to matching inflation, not a huge difference like some are claiming.

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 26 May 2016, 22:12

Wallaceshroom wrote:Right, postie I can honestly say,in my personal opinion, this country in the time I have been alive, well let's say the time I have been earning , and been an adult (no clever comebacks) , I feel this country has become a joke. I see it everywhere now, the amount of immigrants, the sharia courts the paedophile sex rings, the polish n Muslim houses that just have rubbish n s**t everywhere. These people do not live our life or our culture. I had more money in my pocket ten years ago than I do today, n I have never took a penny out the system, I have two children , n I do not think there future looks bright in this current situation.

I'm not racist, but I don't want all these immigrants here, geographically you may not see what I see everyday, but it's getting worse, in fact the world as a whole has become a much worse place (maybe down to us getting involved in bombing Middle East) but that's another story, I want to bring our democracy , back our own laws, our pride.

I would rather struggle in a country that governs itself n has a chance to put the wrongs right, than, to see it slowly crumble to union that offers us nothing in particular....

well your money in your pocket could well be more of a problem that RM wages hasnt increased with inflation (someone will probably know) and also general cuts to OT rates and it also being harder for a lot of us to do OT due to the longer deliveries we all deal with now... Ive found myself doing way less than back in the day just due to tiredness from my normal shift. However i dont feel i have less spending money in general than say 10 years ago especially if i take into account im no longer doing OT.
I cant speak for where you live and it may be a real problem with the immigrants messing things up, for me in my area i havent seen this, so we are probably diverging from that point right there.

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 26 May 2016, 22:24

so youre saying all or most of the immigrants are like this ?

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 27 May 2016, 06:30

Wallaceshroom wrote: Don't tell me immigration hasn't had an effect on this country's wages, I work at Royal Mail because of this , n I'm happier now , not having to work anywhere near those sly, disgusting dirty specimens of human beings

If you are not a racist you certainly seem like one.

Chewster · Post by **Chewster** » 27 May 2016, 07:06

Wallace does sound a bit racist.

I also don't see how leaving the EU is going to make wages all of a sudden increase. The UK has done a decent job at increasing wages for the last few years, as well as increasing our tax free threshold. Minimum wage isn't as bad as all that. It's easy for us with our £10+ per hour to look at it and think it's terrible, but I got by on minimum wage for years. And by "got by," I mean I had enough to live on, I had a car, and I had enough to have a couple of pints most weekends. Doesn't sound so bad does it? I wasn't in the position to save up as much as I am now, or to afford certain luxuries, but I was getting by fine enough. I also say minimum wage isn't something people should be aspiring to earn forever. Is that elitest? I don't think so. I'm sure that near enough everyone who is working on minimum wage is aspiring to move further up the ladder, or to find a more high paying job. So it's not as bad as we like to think, and I certainly don't see how leaving the EU would make minimum wage shoot up all of a sudden. Especially in the agricultural sector (where I spent a lot of time working), when farmers rely quite heavily on the EU grants.

Acca Dacca · Post by **Acca Dacca** » 27 May 2016, 08:28

Wallaceshroom wrote:Right, postie I can honestly say,in my personal opinion, this country in the time I have been alive, well let's say the time I have been earning , and been an adult (no clever comebacks) , I feel this country has become a joke. I see it everywhere now, the amount of immigrants, the sharia courts the paedophile sex rings, the polish n Muslim houses that just have rubbish n s**t everywhere. These people do not live our life or our culture. I had more money in my pocket ten years ago than I do today, n I have never took a penny out the system, I have two children , n I do not think there future looks bright in this current situation.

I'm not racist, but I don't want all these immigrants here, geographically you may not see what I see everyday, but it's getting worse, in fact the world as a whole has become a much worse place (maybe down to us getting involved in bombing Middle East) but that's another story, I want to bring our democracy , back our own laws, our pride.

I would rather struggle in a country that governs itself n has a chance to put the wrongs right, than, to see it slowly crumble to union that offers us nothing in particular....

You are so right.

The world was so much better in the 40's

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 27 May 2016, 14:09

The problem the leave campaign has is shown in this thread, there are legitimate reasons for wanting to leave the EU but nobody with the intelligence to put forward those reasons wants to be associated with the bigoted, ill informed nonsense spouted by the self proclaimed mouthpieces for change.

I'm not a fan of the EU as an organisation but I won't break bread with bigots and xenophobic idiots. I'll take my chances with the remain camp and try to affect change from the inside.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 27 May 2016, 15:38

fishtank wrote:. I'll take my chances with the remain camp and try to affect change from the inside.

Best of luck with that then. Cameron had a go (albeit half-heartedly) and got told to go forth and multiply, so what chance do you have?

Seems like neither side has the monopoly on sensible or idiotic mouth-pieces, but that doesn't mean people can't see through the nonsense being spouted.
That said, a region which is the recipient of financial aid packages, from whatever source, is clearly going to think long and hard about the future...hands, knives and food spring to mind here.

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 28 May 2016, 16:40

Toe the Party line Winston, or you'll be an unperson soon ...

claretandblue · Post by **claretandblue** » 28 May 2016, 21:09

Can't believe no one has mentioned what the EU has done to the postal market. Remember is was the EU that stopped us being a monopoly and made us open up DSA to TNT and Deutche post ect.

THE MAJORITY OF MY OFFICE ARE VOTE LEAVE.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 28 May 2016, 21:43

The EU didn't stop us being a monopoly, La Poste still has a monopoly in France, The UK government of the day wanted us privatised and opening us up to downstream access competition while still expecting us to deliver the final mile was the best way to force that. The EU didn't ask for that and hasn't asked for that from any other EU membership state.

claretandblue · Post by **claretandblue** » 29 May 2016, 07:58

fishtank wrote:The EU didn't stop us being a monopoly, La Poste still has a monopoly in France, The UK government of the day wanted us privatised and opening us up to downstream access competition while still expecting us to deliver the final mile was the best way to force that. The EU didn't ask for that and hasn't asked for that from any other EU membership state.

I wouldn't be to sure about that

http://ec.europa.eu/competition/sectors ... ew_en.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Postal services

Overview

Good postal services are a vital part of communication in the EU internal market. In 2009, the EU's postal sector accounted for an annual turnover of €72 billion, representing 0.62 % of the EU's GDP and about 1.5 million jobs in the EU. Other sectors such as e-commerce, publishing, mail order, insurance, banking and advertising depend heavily on the postal infrastructure. Postal services encompass a variety of services, from letters to parcels to value-added services.

One of the Commission's, and more specifically the Competition DG's, core tasks is to promote and safeguard effective competition in the postal services sector. Promoting more competition in this sector is also important in reaching the Europe 2020 goals for sustainable growth in a resource-efficient and more competitive economy.

The Commission has the power to do this in two ways: by opening up the postal services markets, and by enforcing competition rules where relevant.

Opening up the postal services markets

The EU law on postal services consists of three postal directives: Directive 97/67/EC of 1997, as amended by Directive 2002/39 and Directive 2008/6/EC. This law gradually liberalised postal services. It also guaranteed citizens that postal services would remain accessible everywhere and to everyone under the same conditions (i.e. the universal postal service). Customers can thus benefit from new forms of services, higher quality and lower prices provided by both the incumbents and alternative postal operators. At the same time, the universal service will be maintained. To that end, universal service providers can be compensated for the net cost of providing the universal service when this net cost represents an unfair burden for the operator.

Under the third postal directive, 16 Member States had to open their postal markets fully by 31 December 2010. The remaining eleven will complete liberalisation by the end of 2012. Some Member States (Estonia, Finland, Germany, the Netherlands, Slovakia, Sweden and the United Kingdom) had already fully opened their postal markets ahead of the EU deadline. Full liberalization allows new operators and innovative services to appear, thus promoting competition in terms of quality and price of postal services (see MEMO/12/43).

Protecting consumers

Consumers need to know that the quality of service will not worsen as the postal markets open up. They should enjoy more reliable and higher quality postal services as reserved areas (i.e. parts of the postal market where only the incumbents were allowed to provide postal services) are gradually removed and competition grows.

The current requirements for high quality universal service (such as density of post offices and letter boxes) are fully maintained, and closely monitored by national authorities. When competitors enter the market, universal service providers come under pressure to become more efficient and more customer-focused. Consumers then benefit, as senders and receivers of mail, from a more quality-focused service. They should also benefit from savings passed on to them through cost reductions for business users and large volume mailers such as banks or utility companies. In any case, the universal service obligations guarantee that all Member States will ensure the continued full coverage and affordability of postal services.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 29 May 2016, 08:19

Have you actually read that.
Nowhere does it state that competitors must be allowed downstream access to our network and then force us to deliver the final mile at a loss, that was our own fault because we ( our government ) implemented the directive far too eagerly and far too heavily in favour of the competition, that was our laws not European laws. The directives also states that the USO provider should be compensated for the burden of continuing the obligation, still waiting on that one...

Every EU directive has to be enshrined in UK law before it means anything, that's generally where we get screwed over because the government of the day puts its own spin on it, not to protect the interests of UK citizens but to protect the interests of themselves and their friends.

claretandblue · Post by **claretandblue** » 29 May 2016, 09:00

that's why we need to vote leave, our union's beloved labour party was in power when this happened, they love the EU and goldplate directives.