Royal Mail in EU referendum

[TrueBlueTerrier]

For Me its all about leaving the E.U dictatorship.

While the senior staff of the Commission are indeed unelected, so are bureaucrats almost everywhere, including those in Whitehall. And those staff – as well as being appointed by the elected governments of the member states, and being subject to confirmation in their positions by the elected European Parliament, and having to report regularly to the EP – cannot make final decisions on EU law or policy. Those decisions are made by the Council of Ministers (consisting of ministers from the elected governments of the member states) and the elected EP. Furthermore, the general direction of the EU is guided by the European Council, consisting of the elected heads of government (or state) of the 28 EU member states. And all the EU institutions are accountable to the treaties and the European Court of Justice. The idea that there is a European government in Brussels with independent powers is nothing more than a myth.

Though I guess its kind of ironic that the Scots (and the North) see Whitehall as unrepresentative of them, and that Scotland may leave the UK if we leave the EU.

[chillout1571]

I'm voting to stay in, I'm looking at our relationship with Europe and the world and I feel isolation is always proven a negative thing if you look back in history. It's the only thing I have ever agreed with Cameron about,lol.

[Tman]

This is a myth, labour from Eastern Europe has no effect on wages in the UK. Partly because they're doing jobs people in this country think are below them.

My God, even the Tories stopped saying that old inaccurate cliché (normally linked to the NHS and London Transport) back in the 1960s. The natural follow-on from that is that the indigenous population just don't want to work and the Poles etc do.
Racism by any other name.

[yellowbelly]

Lets shed a bit of light on the matter courtesy of The Right Honourable James Hacker MP, Sir Humphrey Appleby and the BBC

Hacker: Europe is a community of nations, dedicated towards one goal.
Sir Humphrey: Oh, ha ha ha.
Hacker: May we share the joke, Humphrey?
Sir Humphrey: Oh Minister, let's look at this objectively. It is a game played for national interests, and always was. Why do you suppose we went into it?
Hacker: To strengthen the brotherhood of free Western nations.
Sir Humphrey: Oh really. We went in to screw the French by splitting them off from the Germans.
Hacker: So why did the French go into it, then?
Sir Humphrey: Well, to protect their inefficient farmers from commercial competition.
Hacker: That certainly doesn't apply to the Germans.
Sir Humphrey: No, no. They went in to cleanse themselves of genocide and apply for readmission to the human race.
Hacker: I never heard such appalling cynicism! At least the small nations didn't go into it for selfish reasons.
Sir Humphrey: Oh really? Luxembourg is in it for the perks; the capital of the EEC, all that foreign money pouring in.
Hacker: Very sensible central location.
Sir Humphrey: With the administration in Brussels and the Parliament in Strasbourg? Minister, it's like having the House of Commons in Swindon and the Civil Service in Kettering!

[Danelectro]

The idea that there is a European government in Brussels with independent powers is nothing more than a myth.

I think Yanis Faroufakis who funnily enough is urging the UK to remain in the EU would disagree with you on that,otherwise who exactly was he negotiating with ? Below is the answer he got to that question followed by his conclusions

“The Eurogroup does not exist in law, there is no treaty which has convened this group.”

“So,” Varoufakis said, “What we have is a non-existent group that has the greatest power to determine the lives of Europeans. It’s not answerable to anyone, given it doesn’t exist in law; no minutes are kept; and it’s confidential. No citizen ever knows what is said within . . . These are decisions of almost life and death, and no member has to answer to anybody.”

[TrueBlueTerrier]

How the Eurogroup works http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/counc ... oup-works/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[stan_lers]

This is a myth, labour from Eastern Europe has no effect on wages in the UK. Partly because they're doing jobs people in this country think are below them.

My God, even the Tories stopped saying that old inaccurate cliché (normally linked to the NHS and London Transport) back in the 1960s. The natural follow-on from that is that the indigenous population just don't want to work and the Poles etc do.
Racism by any other name.

I know a lot of people who work in recruitment, and a lot of British people who are offered those kind of jobs and either refuse them, or quit after a few days.

A lot of jobs in agriculture, warehouse packing etc all pay minimum wage all the same so nationality doesn't come into it for employers. That being the case, why are those jobs so disproportionally going to immigrants? Employers know that Brits wont take them unless they pay massively inflated wages.

[DB1100]

Out for me.

[Chewster]

This is a myth, labour from Eastern Europe has no effect on wages in the UK. Partly because they're doing jobs people in this country think are below them.

My God, even the Tories stopped saying that old inaccurate cliché (normally linked to the NHS and London Transport) back in the 1960s. The natural follow-on from that is that the indigenous population just don't want to work and the Poles etc do.
Racism by any other name.

I know a lot of people who work in recruitment, and a lot of British people who are offered those kind of jobs and either refuse them, or quit after a few days.

A lot of jobs in agriculture, warehouse packing etc all pay minimum wage all the same so nationality doesn't come into it for employers. That being the case, why are those jobs so disproportionally going to immigrants? Employers know that Brits wont take them unless they pay massively inflated wages.

Yep this is very true. Before coming to RM I worked for an agency, and they had me in factories and in labouring jobs, mainly in agriculture. The place they had me at the longest (an agricultural setting), out of over 100 of us sent by the agency, I can honestly only think of 7 of us who were not from abroad. British people really do turn their noses up at these jobs, my mates down the pub would always ask "how can you stand to do work like that?" (most of them still ask lol). They weren't all Eastern European either (though the vast majority were), there were a lot of Portuguese, and we even had one African lad and 4 from South America, and quite a few Russians (I've never seen anyone drink so much vodka at a Christmas party before), who we may inadvertently lump together with other Eastern Europeans, but they're not EU members.

It's also important to remember that Norway is a far richer country than us and we can't just become them overnight. What applies to Norway cannot apply to us. And even more important to note, is that Norway actually pays the EU more or less the same as we pay so it can enjoy the trade

[Tman]

I know a lot of people who work in recruitment, and a lot of British people who are offered those kind of jobs and either refuse them, or quit after a few days.
A lot of jobs in agriculture, warehouse packing etc all pay minimum wage all the same so nationality doesn't come into it for employers. That being the case, why are those jobs so disproportionally going to immigrants? Employers know that Brits wont take them unless they pay massively inflated wages.

Maybe because immigrants are able or even happy to work for the minimum wage due to differing expectations in living standards, housing etc, whereas the indigenous workers often cannot afford to take such jobs due to losing other benefits or increased travel and child care costs etc.
If and when those migrants settle in and live the same "type" of lives as the indigenous workers, then the same conditions for taking employment will exist for them too. Only some ignorant shiny-suited employment agency shyster putting pegs in holes would see the complex issues as merely being down to "they want to work", but then, as has already been said, that was the over-simplistic views of the good old Tories back in the day, too.
As for the race card, (for that is what you're playing) how many (immigrant) Angard casuals turn up for one or two days only never to be seen again? Workers and shirkers are everywhere and not exclusive to any one race creed nationality or religion, but that shouldn't even need to be said in 2016.

[fishtank]

Could someone explain to me how these wonderful new increases in wages will be paid for, do you honestly think shareholders will take the hit?

[Postie45]

so nothing then ? you said tenfold then listed a bunch of things you claim have increased (without actual data)

[Postie45]

did i say everything costs the same ? of course theres inflation, i wasnt even addressing this point or the fact things may have increased in real terms, and im sure some selection bias could show how a lot of things are actually cheaper now.
you made the tenfold claim, i was wondering if you had actual facts about this or it was something you had just made up

[fishtank]

The biggest deflationary factor on wages in the last 10 years has been tax credits, a subsidy for employers and shareholders and absolutely nothing to do with the free movement of labour.

[yellowbelly]

The biggest deflationary factor on wages in the last 10 years has been tax credits, a subsidy for employers and shareholders and absolutely nothing to do with the free movement of labour.

If 'we' the taxpayer are paying for tax credits - to bring people's living standards up to a certain
level, then it means that employers don't have to pay so much - in fact some employers have created contracts so that employees don't have to work more
hours than the tax credit eligibility threshold.

I agree with Fishtank - I'm not disputing the fact that people need tax credits to assist them in achieving a humane living standard, but it is often a tax payer subsidy
for the wages of employees of huge multinational companies who make billions of pounds - should I effectively be paying the wages of a McDonalds employee through my
taxes when McDonalds make billions?