Election material

[steve1873]

But HOW can a postie reasonably be expected to know if political material or mail caused them to go over their time? Are we supposed to take 2 stopwatches out with us and time separately exactly how long everything is taking us? And if it's unaddressed leaflets that we have multiple days to deliver and you only take where you're going, surely that would incur no extra time aside from, what, 10-15 minutes throwing them into the frame? And unless it's a particularly quiet day, addressed leaflets shouldn't really be taking us much longer either.

simple sort the mail in, then before putting election leaflets in, assess how long it's going to take you to deliver, just like you do when following the cutting off procedure say to yourself do I have enough time to soley deliver the mail? If yes and you go over then you know roughly it's the election material that causes you to go over, any decent postie can estimate how long their delivery will take from looking at their frame sorted in, as for taking 10-15 min to throw in, if you are over your time by only 10-15 min then it's clear that the election material took you over so shouldn't claim the 10-15 min

Absolute utter nonsense! There are so many factors that come in to play on any given day, that to suggest simply looking at your frame as a measure as to how long a delivery will take is bordering on the absurd, with all due respect!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Prep time for Election Material isn't included in the work plan.

Unless you cut off?

No, it's still not included in the work plan. Whether you complete within, or without your hours, or cut off, it's still outside the work plan.

If my finish time is 3:00 I can finish then, on the dot. I can't be forced to work over. But what if I have spent time on Election Material? If you take away the
time spent on Election Material, I'll have worked less than my contracted hours.

So I can't 'gain' by going over, but I can 'gain' by working to my time.

Depends on if you deliver all items to spec over the 3 or 7 days within your contract hours, then you'll still be paid for them. But if you don't deliver as per specification, then a strict reading of the agreement would mean you wouldn't pe paid for any of them.

Personally, I have never started early, and I haven't gone over during this "election", but I have delivered to spec and never threatened to cut off, I suppose I am a winner all round. However, it is easier for FT and 30 hours OPGs to do it within their times with good planning (by the OPG), but for anyone on lesser hours it is harder and perhaps it should be recognised as such.

Will it, though, in monetary terms I doubt it.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

But HOW can a postie reasonably be expected to know if political material or mail caused them to go over their time? Are we supposed to take 2 stopwatches out with us and time separately exactly how long everything is taking us? And if it's unaddressed leaflets that we have multiple days to deliver and you only take where you're going, surely that would incur no extra time aside from, what, 10-15 minutes throwing them into the frame? And unless it's a particularly quiet day, addressed leaflets shouldn't really be taking us much longer either.

simple sort the mail in, then before putting election leaflets in, assess how long it's going to take you to deliver, just like you do when following the cutting off procedure say to yourself do I have enough time to soley deliver the mail? If yes and you go over then you know roughly it's the election material that causes you to go over, any decent postie can estimate how long their delivery will take from looking at their frame sorted in, as for taking 10-15 min to throw in, if you are over your time by only 10-15 min then it's clear that the election material took you over so shouldn't claim the 10-15 min

Absolute utter nonsense! There are so many factors that come in to play on any given day, that to suggest simply looking at your frame as a measure as to how long a delivery will take is bordering on the absurd, with all due respect!

So how do you assess whether you are going to go over or not. Do you have a different method to judge how busy it is, because that's the method I use?

[steve1873]

But HOW can a postie reasonably be expected to know if political material or mail caused them to go over their time? Are we supposed to take 2 stopwatches out with us and time separately exactly how long everything is taking us? And if it's unaddressed leaflets that we have multiple days to deliver and you only take where you're going, surely that would incur no extra time aside from, what, 10-15 minutes throwing them into the frame? And unless it's a particularly quiet day, addressed leaflets shouldn't really be taking us much longer either.

simple sort the mail in, then before putting election leaflets in, assess how long it's going to take you to deliver, just like you do when following the cutting off procedure say to yourself do I have enough time to soley deliver the mail? If yes and you go over then you know roughly it's the election material that causes you to go over, any decent postie can estimate how long their delivery will take from looking at their frame sorted in, as for taking 10-15 min to throw in, if you are over your time by only 10-15 min then it's clear that the election material took you over so shouldn't claim the 10-15 min

Absolute utter nonsense! There are so many factors that come in to play on any given day, that to suggest simply looking at your frame as a measure as to how long a delivery will take is bordering on the absurd, with all due respect!

So how do you assess whether you are going to go over or not. Do you have a different method to judge how busy it is, because that's the method I use?

By time, like any logical person. I know the deliveries are timed at ~4hr.15. If I have only 4hours of my shift remaining after bundling up and loading (after having taken my meal relief), then it is quite clear I will be going over or cutting off.

So you know by looking at your frame, how long your partner will take on each given loop? How many attendance calls will require shut notices and/ or neighbour knocks? How many 2d scans are going to be required? How many times you are going to have to deviate from route to make 1pm cutoff of special delivery items? Just off the top of my head.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

err - yes. I suppose its experience. I am usually within 10 minutes or less of a guestimated time.

Sometimes as a double prepper I may be out late, but even taking the various stuff you listed into account, I know I will complete in my hours so I don't cut off. Its just experience I guess, and the fact that I walk at the same pace every day as well, whatever the work load is.

[steve1873]

Rural delivery by chance?

On park & loop, I am sorry but I am not buying you can possibly look at YOUR frame and be able to judge within 10 minutes as to your finishing time on delivery. Baring in mind that you also have to take in to account your partners frame!

The points being made in the discussion are simple - the agreement regarding election materials are not fit for purpose!

Fact: the items require prep. The prep time is unaccounted for in resourcing due to fact we receive a pence per item payment. The payment is a substitute for overtime payments. Ovetime is voluntary. Election material should therefore also be fully optional. Or rather delivery (and prep) of election material outside of contractual working hours should be fully optional.

[motherhubbard]

Election material should therefore also be fully optional.

It is. You are quite within your rights to state at the start that you don't want to do any election material.
The manager will then make a decision about how best that election material can get delivered.
What I have never known anyone be allowed to do is decide which bits they will and won't do (Outside of conscience clause)

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Rural delivery by chance?

No sink estate. Albeit we are still pre- delivery methods despite 5 years of trying. But the CDV pair next to me still use the same guestimate method.

The points being made in the discussion are simple - the agreement regarding election materials are not fit for purpose!

On that I agree, just like the overrunning, the 30 minutes flex, the lapsing and the leave system needs a good looking at as well.

[Chewster]

To be honest, I find it quite hard to judge how long I'm going to take as well, I certainly can't estimate within 10 minutes anyway! Half an hour maybe. Irrelevant to me anyway though as I never cut off (a mortal sin on these boards by the sounds of things!)

[NewPostieUK]

But once you have accepted the payment for delivering the election material surely you have also accepted that they need to be delivered to spec.
I really don't see how you can accept the extra payment and cut off. It seems a very childish attitude.

Accept payment? You mean you can decline it?

Also, not everybody can work overtime with zero notice. You walk in to work expecting to finish at 3:00 and there are 600+ cards to be counted prepped and delivered, you are told you have no choice. No wonder some people have an attitude.

[NewPostieUK]

The points being made in the discussion are simple - the agreement regarding election materials are not fit for purpose!

Yet a load of people are defending it.

[NewPostieUK]

Do you have a different method to judge how busy it is, because that's the method I use?

Is it a Monday or Tuesday? Yes - Possibly finish on time. No - Overtime required.

Is there election material? Yes - Forced overtime with threat of not being paid for it.

Is any of the 'extra' work that day, such as election material, expected and planned for? No - change any plans you had for after work.

[NewPostieUK]

Personally, I have never started early, and I haven't gone over during this "election"

Aren't you worried that your manager, seeing that you've incorporated this extra work into your normal day, will expect you to do more every day? Lapsing maybe, or add more to your duty?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Personally, I have never started early, and I haven't gone over during this "election"

Aren't you worried that your manager, seeing that you've incorporated this extra work into your normal day, will expect you to do more every day? Lapsing maybe, or add more to your duty?

Nope because if they do they know I am faultlessly honest with them and will use the overrunning procedure when and if required. I do have a decent manager, though, he plays fair, so do I, this means if I am back before my time, or I can lapse even on busy days I will, if I can't I won't. Even if managers aren't around, there is still always some work to do to take me to my time, even if it's just tidying my frame.

The thing is the disconnect there is between the senior managers and the coal face cause this idiotic belief from above that's the days call rate , attendance rate and traffic is accurately predictable every single day. Therefore, that all duties have the same ability to lapse/absorb extra work no matter whatever the localised conditions such as weather, absence and other non-RM factors are. This is made worse the members who have the same perception of Union officials who have no current personal experience of deliveries.

This is not a criticism of either managers or senior officials, but it is a simple fact of life that, to use the Army as an example, officers that are respected the most are usually the ones in the trenches with you, the further back you go, the less respect or belief that they really understand what it's like there is. I suppose the answer is not to question this perception, but to take steps to change it.